The meeting wednesday was long but interesting.
Hope you all read about it in the paper.
since then some people have contacted me and feel the proper procedure was not followed.
three commissioners showed up, which made it a quorum.
That makes it an open meeting, but does not make it a special commission meeting.
I knew about the meeting and I thought everyone else did too. I guess I should have done a small story about it.
Whats more interesting to me is that the building owner are going to meet early next week.
They are going to discuss the ordinance, and maybe some ideas that they can come back to the commission with.
THese meetings however, will NOT be public. I have been told that I cannot come. That means you cant go either.
Not exactly good PR.
Do want to point out, that it is business and building owners - NOT the city - that is making the meeting private. They say they will make the second one public.
The basic deal now is, the ordinance is on hold while the downtown building owners try to come up with a compromise notion.
The city has the ordinance as a threat if nothing happens.
Windows really are not the point i guess.
If it gets them going and some good things happen, it will be worth it.
Ill keep you posted.
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30 comments:
Arkansas City Mayor Dotty Smith said she had talked with people who live on those roads and they were concerned about safety. Many of them are reporting that there is already a large increase in traffic, and they fear there will be even more if the improvements are made.
"It is dangerous now. It would only be more so (later)," she said.
She said people are often drinking at casinos, and she is concerned about intoxicated drivers driving on country roads.
so its safer for them to drive through town and hurt more people
To me this is just smoke being blown by the mayor to keep the flow of traffic going through town. Yes there is a lot of traffic going through these areas. And whether we allow them to do road improvements or not, they will still drive those roads. Simple as that. They are going to take the shortest/fastest route possible and that sure isn't through town if your coming from the interstate. Those folks in the area out there can cry all they want about the traffic...change is going to happen regardless if you want it or not. Accept it, deal with it and go on.
I can't imagine Smith wanting the drunks channeled through town at all. Drunks drive the same whether it is out in the county or in the city. But in the city there will be more revenue generated by DUI arrests. That might be one possitive for the city. She also needs to understand that intoxicated drivers drive more than the country roads...they are in town all the time as well....if she only knew! Time to let it go....it is what is best for Cowley County at stake here....not what is best for AC!
The proposed road would also bypass the other two existing casinos.
Should the county be doing that?
It's the business owners right to meet in private. However hope they remember that when they think the taxpayers ought to pony up, for "their" business repair.
Why is it an open meeting that only 3 of the commissioners attended? Was it a meeting because they attended or was it announced to be a commission meeting?
Is the fact that only 3 showed up a problem? Did the other 2 refuse? Why is it an issue? Or is that why it was open to public?
Come on James, give with the details. You seem to leave about 1/2 of it out.
Does the private meeting mean the owners disagree with the city? Are they trying to set their own rules? Are they afraid that the public is getting involved in what needs to be done?
Let's hear more of the story. More about the commission, more about the building owners.
There are some questions about these meetings.
but to some degree, people are trying to make it into more than it is.
Answers are below......
((((((Why is it an open meeting that only 3 of the commissioners attended?))))))
It was an open meeting already. If two or more commissioners show up, it would become an open meeting if it were not ... an it becomes sort of a commission meeting..
Though they cannot take any action, even if all of them show up.
((((Was it a meeting because they attended or was it announced to be a commission meeting?))))
The meeting was about the ordinance and business owners. It would have happened and been open whether any commissioners showed up or not.
(((((Is the fact that only 3 showed up a problem? ))))))
No, completely irrelevant
(((((Did the other 2 refuse? ))))))
They say they were not notified. The person who sent out the email said the email was sent to all of them.
I got the email myself,
(((((Why is it an issue? )))))))
Im kinda wondering that myself.
(((((Or is that why it was open to public?))))))
see above.
whether commissioners showed up was not a deciding factor in anything.
((((Come on James, give with the details. You seem to leave about 1/2 of it out.)))))))
I dont think i am.
Im afraid people will get sidetracked by the sideshow,, .. the meeting was proper,
(((((Does the private meeting mean the owners disagree with the city)))))))
Well they do disagree.
But it means the city is saying, "go get us a proposal" so they are meeting to come up with something to give to the city.
It could turn out to be a good thing.
or not :)
((((( Are they trying to set their own rules?)))))
Thats part of it ... but even setting their own rules would be an improvement. Them setting their own rules would be fine with the city.\
(((((Are they afraid that the public is getting involved in what needs to be done?))))))))
Could be
They want to be able to talk about stuff without the public knowing about it, ...
(((((((((Let's hear more of the story. More about the commission, more about the building owners.))))))
More is coming
look at saturdays paper
Sounds like a dog and pony show.
City says we don't want your crappy looking buildings, so we will pass and ordinance to make you fix it because you won't do it on your own.
Owners say Oh please don't do that, we'll have to spend our money, let us fiqure a way for the people of the city, county and or the state to pay for it.
City says good idea, that way we won't make you mad, you can drag your feet, and maybe it will all go away, and folks will forget about it. Be sides you said you won't do anything we say any way, because you don't like to be told what to do.
Bldg owners say we can hold meeting in secret, that way when we decide what we will or will not do, no one can call us on it.
Why do we elect commissioners when they pass the buck to the bozos who they are trying to bring into compliance?
This is a joke, but the joke is on the people of Ark City.
This is a joke, but the joke is on the people of Ark City.
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It could be.
But if the group does come up with something and follows through, it will be worth it.
The city commission has opened this can of worms.
If nothing happens, they'll need to stand their ground for sure.
If the building owners finance their window repair through taxpayer money, there will be a fight on their hands.
If the building owners finance their window repair through taxpayer money, there will be a fight on their hands.
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THe idea is to finance it through their tax money. They would get a tax break, but pay the same amount of tax.
The difference would pay for the repairs.
hmmmm
Sounds a lot like a big box doesnt it?
the hawk is right. let's elect more tiggers who don't own any property themselves but want to have a say in what you do with yours and then whahh whahh whahh when they miss out on a chance to tell you how to spend money. that is something the people should be mad about. they have someone telling them how much they have to pay in property taxes when they don't pay any themselves except through rent.
let's replace him with that really smart computer guy who can't fix computers
You're right.
We don't want anyone around who might improve the city.
It's better running into the ground like it has for years. How much longer will those buildings stand? Why don't we knock them down now and quit wasting time?
Or are you waiting for the city to pay for it?
some need knocked down. that's not new news. we should fix the rest.
"THe idea is to finance it through their tax money. They would get a tax break, but pay the same amount of tax."
Anytime you give a tax break it will cost other tax payers more money. This is a fact! They have been paying taxes now that contribute to the tax base of the City. If you give a portion of those tax funds back to the building owners to fix windows, I promise you the realocated funds will need to be made up somewhere. Don't fool yourselves Ark City. Somehow, someway, we will pay for their poor upkeep of their buildings. You made your bed now sleep in it, fix your windows on your own dime!
Come on James! The last post is right. There is only so much money to go around to pay for city services. Are you willing to cut police, fire, ambulance, and other city services to pay for the downtown building owners windows?
I can't say I disagree with that. They don't need the help of the taxpayers to fix their own windows. Some of them have had more than 40 years to do the work.
Why is upkeep an issue all of the sudden and nothing was done about it previously? This is a very disturbing question. Where are the parties who have not been responsible up until now who have allowed the buildings to get to the point of the condition they are in? I have heard there were studies done on a number of these buildings 30 or more years ago. They expected what is now Schmidt's building to cave in on itself within 5 years and nothing was ever done.
When the owners bought their buildings, they knew the condition they were in. They took on a certain amount of risk. They calculated that risk which was that they would only have to put so much into their buildings and could eak more profit out than what they had to put in. They probably counted on things being how they have always been and there would not be any special movement to have to do much more than had been done at any time previously.
The ones who care about their buildings and are invested in the downtown and the pride of the town are the ones who have kept theirs up. If you pay close attention it becomes apparent there is really only about ONE building owner who is asking for help again and again and looking for tax dollars or abatements to do it while they are trying to deflect focus from their own building.
They are probably the one person who needs the help the least but does not want to be told what to do or how to do it.
The building owners have the ability to do the window repairs and receive a rebate from their taxes now.
The proposal for the city to finance the windows with a TID is almost exactly the same money as the tax rebate they qualify for.
It will cost the taxpayers nothing more than what the building owners qualify for now, providing the city has a provision for defaults on the taxes. The TID is a good solution to the problem.
So why is a TID or TIF ok now but was not okay for a new development!
Have your cake and eat it to!
Whats good for the Goose is good for the Gander!
Many more that apply, something stinks!
I wrote the previous post.
"So why is a TID or TIF ok now but was not okay for a new development!"
The people that denied the town a TIF for the Lowes screwed up bigtime and should be remembered for it. This shouldn't shut down the possibility of doing other things to make the town better.
It is almost impossible to ignore what has been done. Will the Commission shut off all TIFs in the future because of a mistake in the past? Maybe, but I sure hope not.
Many of the downtown buildings were bought at rock-bottom prices.
Do business owners not have a responsibility to their community ?
They (building owners) met privately last night. Be interesting to see what they come up with.
if you pick up a building for 20 grand, you better expect to put money into it and not just sit on it. the talk about big expenses is just a straw argument. they need to just sell out to someone who wants to actually invest in the town.
Did the Schmidts attend any of the windows meetings before they covered there windows with metal?
yes they did
Will I get a tax break to repair the broken windows at my house? Come on that is part of owning a house, building or business it is called maintenance.
You don't get a tax break for repairing a window.
The rebate is for improvements made to the building/house that INCREASE your tax liability. And I think they extended the rebate to all of AC??
Do you think your property tax should go up if you fix a broken window?
Anyway, the real debate I guess would be when you do something like replace/repair the windows in a building that hasn't had them for 40 years does is the an improvement or not?
You only get the rebate if your property tax increases.
Most (probably 90%) of the downtown building owners are landlords, charging rent (MAKING MONEY) to the businesses in their buildings. Just like any business, they have expenses. I'm surprised their tenants don't call for the window improvements.
The rich get richer... whoever said it recently here sure picked the right spot.
Did anyone notice the picture in the paper on the front page with the 3 Amigos front and center? is there any reason that they grouped together and separated Pat and Joel as far as possible? Is the split in the commission wider than we know or are told?
We need a commissioner here to speak up. Does Pat still get involved here? Maybe we can get James to do a little digging.
Is the split in the commission wider than we know or are told?
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Patrick isnt stopping by as much.
There is a split.
But I dont think its any worse than any other commission.
I dont know if how they were sitting is how they will be sitting the rest of the time.
Guess i'm just saying maybe one shouldnt read too much into the seating arrangement.
After watching the commission meeting on TV it looks like Mayor Dottie doesn't want to give up. The three amigos take the focal point with Mayor Dottie being puppeteer on the right, and Mayor Kuhn as the puppet in the center. Margolus is on the left ready to fill in.
Joel and Pat look like they are just along for the ride. Their votes don't count if they go up against the 3 amigos.
It makes for a great power play, but what good does it do the city?
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