The beer garden at Arkalalah was barely mentioned at Tuesday night's meeting, but apparently it is a topic that is concerning city commissioners here in Arkansas City.
At least two commissioners told me that they have received several messages and comments from citizens. I have heard it talked about some, but we have gotten only a couple of letters at the Traveler.
We did explain the situation in the paper when the commission gave the OK to the chamber to have the beer garden. Here is the link:
www.arkcity.net/stories/090507/com_0002.shtml
(if clicking the link doesn't work, just copy and paste it into your browser. )
The commissioners feel that they made the best choice. They do not have the legal authority to stop the use of alcohol.
If you want to complain, you need to complain to the Chamber of Commerce, which is the group that is putting this on.
Also, if you will recall, they had beer at last year's Arkalalah, with a "beer and brats" event. It was held indoors and hardly anyone noticed. There was also a wine and cheese event not too long ago, but I don't recall what it was attached to. Might have been a different festival.
What makes it a "beer garden" is that it is outside. They could get their alcohol license from the state, hold it indoors, and they would not even have had to tell the commission about it. They could also serve stronger drinks as well.
The chamber could also have held the event outdoors on private property without commission approval. The commission didn't really have a say in "whether" there would be a beer garden. Their only question was whether it could be on city property or someplace else.
They felt that they will have more control over the situation by having where they are having it.
There is also a bar that is open across the street.
That's the real situation.
Also, the mayor, Dotty Smith, did ask if anyone from the public wanted to comment on the beer garden at the meeting Tuesday. She thought there might be someone who wanted to comment on the matter but no one did.
If you watched the tape on TV, you might have been misled.
At every meeting the public is invited to speak. This is something rarely taken advantage of, but lately there have been a few.
First she asked for public comment on matters NOT relating to the beer garden. Then she asked for comment on the beer garden. On the tape shown on TV, the request for comment on the beer garden was inadvertently cut out.
james
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I have read with great interest all the letters to the editors on this subject. Once again, the religious sect wants to dictate to all of us 'sinners' what to do. If you don't want to drink beer, don't go to the beer garden! As for those of us who do, I say hurray for the beer garden! There is plenty of places to sit and watch the parade and eat far, far, far away from all the beer guzzling sinners! Also, we don't need god driving our city government as Nancy C. said, there is a reason governmnet and religion are kept seperated and she sure shows one good reason why! Not all of us out here believe in your god, nor do we live by your rules that anything fun is a sin, yet the religious groups continue and try to run the WHOLE WORLD according to what they think is right. If you don't like a show on tv, don't watch it or turn the channel! If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one! (and by the way, I don't see any pro-lifers out there adopting any of the poor crack addicted, bi-racial, etc. babies, yet you insist these women should seek adoption instead) If you don't want to drink, don't!, and I wouldn't insist that you do, so don't insist that I don't! Get a life and quit worrying about those of us out here who don't live the way you do-it's NOT your right to tell the rest of us what to do-but it is MY RIGHT to live and believe the way I choose. I wonder if this comment will even be left in, because the editor is a self professed jesus freak and probably won't allow any talk like this in the newspaper-that's why I dropped my subscription, I don't want to read a religious themed paper, just the news and local happenings please.
because the editor is a self professed jesus freak and probably won't allow any talk like this in the newspaper-that's why I dropped my subscription, I don't want to read a religious themed paper, just the news and local happenings please.
how tolerant of you :)
"I dropped my subscription"
Notable, the gentleman says this, yet seems he's reading online. If you don't want to read the paper, just be honest and true to your words and don't read.(online as well)
Too bad, religion get so much blame for people's bad attitudes & problems. Yet the people who founded this country were all DEEPLY religious. Looks to me like they did pretty good with religion as their foundation. Hmmm....
Looks to me like they did pretty good with religion as their foundation. Hmmm...
it does seem that some people protest too much :)
note that i did not even give an opinion on the beer garden ...
It is interesting that religion comes up in this. I am trying to understand the "sins" of alcohol. Seems to me that about 2000 years ago wine was a staple. There was even a man who turned water to wine. I wonder what has happened since then that things have changed?
I believe the alcohol thing and religion is a modern american "thing."
Jesus did turn water into wine at a party. And he said later .. its not what goes in you that makes you dirty (sinful) , its what comes out of your heart...
I dont see any biblical problem with drinking itself.
Now to really get people started.
Biblically, gluttony - which makes people overweight - is seen as just as bad of a sin as drunkennes.
Ok, thats my radical note for today:)
(NOTE i deleted my previous comment because it was all messed up.)
james
The only people I see protesting this beer garden are the religious sect, and of course some church had to jump in, Hillcrest Bible Baptist-which in my own opinion (and not shoving it off on any of you) is a cult hiding in a church, sorry but I have seen some of the propaganda they supply to their members. Baseball games, football games, and other 'family' venues sell beer and no one is yelling, but of course these people wouldn't attend those places either I'm sure. Which is fine, if that's what they want to do. I noticed your online poll shows more in favor than against~and I honestly believe these people are not writing in because they don't see it as a big deal and frankly don't have the time to worry about it like the people against it seem to. The pool hall has sold beer and been a gathering spot for many years at Arkalalah and these people never griped about that. I guess they just don't like the city or chamber being involved with beer, and many have stated that they think there government should go the way of the religious, but here again we must mention that religion and government are kept seperate for a reason~and even though the country may have been founded by religious folk, they still had the forethought at that time to realize the two should be kept seperate. So, all of you against it, power to you, but don't ask that it not be there for those of us who want it, just don't go near it and you should be fine. I don't think any of the beer drinkers will will come looking for you to bother you. And, as for Hillcrest, your float won't be missed by me, and probably the only ones you are really hurting are the ones who enjoyed working on it every year,which was probably the children who attend your church and school~how sad for them. On a final note: beer and other alcoholic beverages ARE LEGAL in this country, so why should your beliefs override that anyway???
On a final note: beer and other alcoholic beverages ARE LEGAL in this country, so why should your beliefs override that anyway???
I tend to agree with you in that ... this is really a tempest in a teacup.
but i dont agree about "the religious sect dictating"
SOMEONE's beliefs are going to control whatever happens ... If you have beer agains the will of the "religious sect" .. you are forcing your beliefs on them. so .....
religious people have rights too . and they have a right to be heard in the public square. "separation" of church and state was never intended to deny religious people freedom of speech.
whether there is beer or not .. or whether there is anything or not ... should be determined by the community, .. by the majority.
one side will always win and one side will always lose ... that isnt "forcing" ones beliefs.
it does seem that if people object to anything on moral grounds, they are immediately labeled as a religious sect and accused of forcing their beliefs on others. I just think that's a bogus argument.
people have a right to object to things. I just dont see that as forcing ones views on another person. What if everyone in the city objected to blue shirts ? Could we outlaw blue shirts based on that ?
Im only taking issue with the "religious sect" comments. That would be a good topic for debate on here.
james
quote: whether there is beer or not .. or whether there is anything or not ... should be determined by the community, .. by the majority.
Well, thank goodness the majority are not religious fanatics. You want to twist things around defending the religious groups that complain. You are right, freedom of speech allows them to complain. What I am saying, and you are trying to skirt around, is that these type of people will have no interest in an issue other than they don't believe in it because it's a sin or bad behaviour in there eyes and so they start in on it and try to influence the ones who do believe in it or try to change it. Let me give you a few examples of what I mean so there is no confusion this time. A beer garden for instance: they don't like it, don't drink it, don't have to be ANYWHERE NEAR IT, yet they complain the loudest about it. Now, if in turn, one of these people or churches wanted to hold something uptown during the festivites that I didn't like, say a church service or prayer area, I am not going to pitch a fit about it-I am just going to ignore it and stay away from it. Other examples I can give you: certain t.v. shows have been attacked by these types of people (Married with Children, South Park, etc) and they don't watch them but again they are yelling the loudest about them. Why???, who knows, they aren't forced to keep their t.v. on that channel and don't have to watch it or like it, and they don't, so why are they worried about it? The shows are available for those that like them and they don't need or want anyones 'help' in deciding what THEY should watch. If you don't like the show, turn the channel, don't rant and rave about them and hide behind your freedom of speech excuse because they don't just say they don't like them, they go on to ask that the shows be taken off the air and for companies to pull advertising, all because they say the shows are immoral and not what they approve of-well, fine, don't approve, but don't try to remove it or 'manipulate' as you would say. I don't like all the religious shows on t.v. either, but I don't gripe about them or tell companies to pull their advertising, and I don't tell you how wrong it is for you to watch them, I just don't watch those shows myself! Duh, how simple is that? There's a certain doctor in Wichita that is continually harassed by these kind of people, his office is continually picketed, etc. all because of these kind of people and their beliefs-who have no intention of ever using his services, yet they are worried about the women who do, well these women don't need you to worry about them nor do they want you to. How would the religious groups like it if groups started showing up every Sunday to protest them having services? praying? Just because I don't believe in it doesn't mean I am bothered that they do it, nor do I feel a need to bother them about it, I just choose not to participate. So, if you don't believe in it and have no desire to do it or participate, that is your right, but why do you have to worry about me doing it? I will go and enjoy myself, and you can go somewhere else and enjoy yourself, and everybodys happy-quit worrying about people doing the things you don't do, that's not very christian like anyway, is it???
Read the comments on the "religion and politics" post ...
But you are attacking religious people ... you call them fanatics right off the bat. You call them "sects" which in this context is clearly derogatory.
You sound very intolerant to me.
If you would have read their comments, and mine, you would know that beer is not the issue.
What if someone wanted a pornographic movie house downtown .. would you tolerate people objecting to that?
What if someone wanted to open a shop that sold racist literature .. posters and such?
What if someone wanted to open a hog lot in a vacant lot downtown?
Does anyone have a right to object to anything ? Or is it only the people who want "to do" something that have rights?
Or is it only religious people that you object to?
:)
You go James, I think a hog lot would be a good place uptown for him to cleanse his soul. Wonder if he had a daughter, if he would like her raped, murdered and left to rot just because that was what that guy wanted to do and it doesn't matter if anyone else has an opinion, it is simply what he wanted to do! Maybe I shouldn't be gender specific, maybe this is a gal, just reverse what I said and apply the same principles. Thou protestest too much!! We got the picture on what "you think and want!"
"Because Kansas has allowed alcoholic beverages in the state"
as quoted from Pearl Turner's most recent letter to the editor about the beer garden.
Hello???!!! as have all other states, where has Ms. Turner been all these years? I feel her real issue here is simply that she doesn't approve of alcholic beverages in any way, shape, or form and is probably a big fan of bringing back prohibition.
"If they will follow the feelings of the people of the City about it"
another quote from Ms. Turner, well, speak for yourself not the rest of us! I don't know how she could possibly know the the feelings of the people, did she go out and survey EVERYONE about this? It appears to me that the majority is in favor of the beer garden, and it seems the only group of people who have a problem with it are the ones looking at it from a religious stand point.
Then, when it is said to be a religious issue, you want to say it is a rights issue, and only the Christians are picked on for this. Well, maybe that's because they are ONLY ones complaining about it and they are complaining about it due to their beliefs that we are all doomed if we consume alcoholic beverages-I haven't noticed any other groups complaining. It isn't about rights, it's about personnel beliefs, specifically religious beliefs, and wanting the rest of us to believe in the same things you do. The Christians are singled out because they are the ones always trying to tell the rest of us what is 'right' or 'wrong'. There is NOTHING wrong or illegal about drinking or selling beer, yet they won't shut up about it. They also complain about Harry Potter, different television programs, etc. because they feel they promote evil, aren't suitable subject matter, etc. Well, fine, don't include those things in your life, that's your right, but if some of us want to enjoy those things in our life, it is our right. If you don't agree with the beer garden, you don't have to attend it or go anywhere near it, but you shouldn't try and ruin it for the ones that will enjoy and attend it~what do you stand to GAIN by doing that anyway?
"Wonder if he had a daughter, if he would like her raped, murdered and left to rot just because that was what that guy wanted to do and it doesn't matter if anyone else has an opinion, it is simply what he wanted to do!"
and as for this idiot, WHAT IN THE WORLD DOES RAPE & MURDER HAVE TO DO WITH 'LEGAL' BEER CONSUMPTION??? Rape and murder happen to be illegal for one, and to compare that type of horrible situation to one of simply consuming a beer (legally even)...just shows your complete and total ignorance as a human being.
I don't need my soul 'cleansed' but thank you anyway, and thanks for the religious zealot humor once again! If nothing else, you religious fanatics are always good entertainment!
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