Here is my column that appeared in Saturday's paper.
Tuesday, the group pushing for a new hospital will make their pitch to the City Commission. There's been a lot of controversy already about whether they should build the new hospital a couple miles north of town. They are also going to be pushing for a half-cent sales tax to help pay for a new facility.
I am just not sure why this is such a controversial item.
From what we have heard, major upgrades and repairs are needed at the current facility.
They are saying it would cost less to build a new one than to upgrade the old one. I know with cars sometimes you get to the point you could buy a new one for what you are paying in repair costs, so it is a valid argument.
Our online poll shows almost a dead heat about our question concerning the hospital, with 184 in favor and 173 opposed.
I am not sure if those opposed have legitimate arguments or whether it's just the negative sentiment that floats around Arkansas City.
Everyone should come to the meeting Tuesday and hear what they have to say. The hospital people have not yet had a good chance to plainly make their case before the public. We should at least listen to them and get the facts before we jump on the bandwagon in either direction.
I have been a little surprised to see some opposition to the hike and bike path that is proposed for the levee around the city.
I did a poll on my blog and those in favor slightly outnumbered the naysayers.
This is being funded, in large part, by a state grant. It is true that state money is "our" money and is tax dollars that we have paid. What some do not seem to realize, is that this money is going to be spent.
The state sets aside a certain amount of money for these grants. Cities compete for those funds through the grant process. If we don't build the path, we will have to send the money back. There are probably at least 50 cities lined up to take it and use it.
Either way, it won't change what we pay in taxes to the state.
The process is under way and the path will likely be built. It's been in the works for years, but hopefully work should begin this fall.
Both the hospital and the hike and bike path are quality-of-life issues. It is true that we need street repairs and various other infrastructure needs that one could argue are more important. Quality of life is an essential need as well.
* * *
It's pretty hard to get by these days without being bombarded by lots of politics. Thanks to the Internet, I keep in touch with a friend who lives in Australia. He is already tired of hearing about our election and he could just imagine how tired we are. They allow campaigning only for two months for any race. I think we could learn something from the people down under.
* * *
Jim Slattery, candidate for U.S. Senate and running against Pat Roberts, was here recently. He had what may be the most profound political line I have heard this season. He said the truth is not in either ditch, referring to the extremes of conservative and liberal philosophies. I have never heard it put so well.
* * *
I always like to hear what our readers think. We are thinking about some changes and I would really like to hear your opinions on a couple of issues.
One is our cartoons. We were thinking about changing some of them. Several of them no longer have the original authors at work on them, and some are in re-runs.
Another issue is Big-12 football and basketball coverage. Would you like to see more of that in the paper?
Let me know what you think.
* * *
The River of Life Music Festival is moving right along. We are going to have a "battle of the bands" of sorts on Friday, Oct. 3.
We will have several local bands playing Friday night and we will be picking a "winner." The winner will get to open the show on Saturday for the longer program.
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39 comments:
Well I certainly hope they will continue to build the hike/bike path. Variety is nice when a person exercises on a regular basis. I suppose the ones opposing the trail are not regular exercisers and don't understand that concept.
As for politics, McCain just turned this election in to a 3 ring circus by his choice of v.p. running mate. Obviously everything he has always wanted in a female running mate.
Isn't it $600,000 the city has to pay for the bike trail? Couldn't it be put to a better use?
There seems to be a mindset that if there is matching money, it is automatically a great idea to do whatever it is without question.
I can think of a dozen higher priorities for a half million bucks than a bicycle trail in Ark City.
I can think of a dozen higher priorities for a half million bucks than a bicycle trail in Ark City.
>>>>
Im sure you could, and you might no matter what the project.
You could argue that we should only have basic stuff and nothing else.
It just sounds like a very boring way to live to me.
One reason businesses don't move here, and that people don't move here, is that there are not enough quality of life things.
THIS is a quality of life thing that could help attract business and people to move here.
There are greater needs possibly, but one can always make that argument about anything.
Its never a good time to .....
its too hot, to cold, too expensive..
But this is something that has been in the process for years.
There is no "spending it for something else."
We either do it or turn back about a million dollars and never again be taken seriously by any state or federal agency that could help us with grants in the future.
The city has already turned back at least one grant. Another one would be disastrous.
Also realize, that half a million the city will be spending. Much of that is "in kind" contributions and not cash. If the city does some of the work, that counts as the city's part.
The arguments against this should have taken place 10 years ago.
JJ you have officially drunk the coolaid. we have on the one hand false assumptions that heady political leaders and the public usually accept at face value and go on.
We end up with so many boondoggles we cant afford because of matching money forcing us to spend moolah we AIN'T GOT.
Want to know why your taxes are so d@mn high???!? "There seems to be a mindset that if there is matching money, it is automatically a great idea to do whatever it is without question."
Want to know why "businesses don't move here?!?!" They are looking at our tax structure NOT whether we have a bike trail to nowhere.
"You could argue that we should only have basic stuff and nothing else." ...and until the economy is doing better and people have more bucks in their pockets this is a very convincing argument.
"It just sounds like a very boring way to live to me." Hate to break it to you but practical can sometimes be a little boring. When did it become the role of government to provide entertainment to the people. sounds more like a private venture and responsibility now doesn't it?
THis is one of those very real examples of a wants and needs thing. If it was free then a lot of folks would want it. Since as one smart person pointed out that there are at least a "dozen higher priorities for a half million bucks" we need someone to think this through better than just throwing this money at this project just because we have a grant.
The notion that we will "never again be taken seriously by any state or federal agency that could help us with grants in the future" is a great thought nice argument really but is not backed up by anything solid and is certainly not a good enough reason to do something stupid with money just because it is available.
You are also completely mistaken about "There is no "spending it for something else."" That is most definitely the case that our 600grand or more can be spent on anything we want. We just couldn't spend the matching dollars on something else and it would have to be returned that is true.
You are hitting the bug squarely on the windshield with this statement "The arguments against this should have taken place 10 years ago." Very True. since that didn't happen when it should have it should still happen now.
What I really want to know is where is the careful consideration on issues like this? why the allornothing mentality? when will people decide to work toward a better solution together?
I just want to make the poitn you shouldn't swallow arguments hooklineandsinker. There is more than one legitimate view.
What about putting the hospital a few blocks south of Madison Ave? There are a ton of places that could be bought out and torn down, making the south look a LOT better. It seems a lot of the buildings are empty as it is, and there would be plenty of space for the building/parking needs. Sure would look a lot better than what is there now!
should have been yeah,, why do radical ideas like a bike path go though yet repairing your water plant or sewer system fall though the cracks, speaking of cracks have you seen the streets,, this is another 400,000 dollar flower pot mainstreet fiasco.
your going to have a lovely city here, you just wont be able to drive or drink or crap,, but you can sure ride that bike or hike
Im just not convinced, that if they did fix the streets, you wouldnt complain about that too.
It doesnt matter what you do, some people are going to complain and trash it.
If we fix the streets, youll say why isnt the water plant being fixed instead. If we fix the water plant youll say why arent the streets fixed instead.
If we fix the water plant and the streets, youll say we should have built a bike path.
Im not against questioning and disagreeing ... its just that the mantra has become very predictable.
BUT
You should think it through. a bike path is economic development.
if we fix up the quality of life issues, more businesses and more people, will want to move here.
and that would give us more money to fix things.
Passive aggressive.
Standard Ark City administrative response.
Question posed to the public: Should we do (or oppose) something?
If yes, then OK.
If not then:
1. There is a regulation which requires it. (9 out of 10 times this is BS)
2. Some authority has done a study and we have no choice. (generally the "authority" is an engineering company with a vested financial interest in the project, ie. a sales pitch, instead of a "study")
3. Someone will be "mad at us" if we don't do whatever it is. (this case in point)
4. It is a Hobson's choice: If you don't do one thing, we will see to it that the money will be wasted on something else or a useless endeavor, but no research is ever done on alternatives. (ie. hospital)
5. It was something that was decided many years ago, and if you have any opinion on it, then you need a time machine. It will be done, no matter what, no matter how goofy the decision was. (most of these outcomes could be changed at any time)
6. Public investment is made in the outcome before the binding decision is made, thereby "forcing" the decision. (Called corruption and is illegal. Done all the time in Ark City.)
Almost every single big decision in Ark City made by the 12 people that run the town and county is based on such weak logic. That is what keeps Ark City in decline.
I am absolutely sure that people in Ark City have the ability and, most importantly, the right to make rational decisions on any issues that spend City or County money.
I think the strength of a newspaper is to see through the BS and call this stuff down.
Once the money is spent, it is gone. Is it really the best use?
A hiking trail? We already have one that nobody uses. Most people don't even know where it is.
But you are saying it is all so totally impossible to stop.
Not really. Just presented that way. Dig deeper.
If a slick engineering company made a PowerPoint, feasibility report, and easel board presentation in suits and ties at the community center, I'm certain the city would approve matching grant money for a monkey island in Paris Park.
They would have to. See reasons 1 through 6 above.
The passive aggressive litmus test (easy to see through):
"We can't be make a rational decision because we *have to* do something" for some vague, unresearched, and unsupportable reason that can't be analyzed or changed. Always stated as an unchallengeable absolute.
"It is (their) story and (they) are stuck with it." Logic is irrelevant.
Text book P/A.
It's a big stinky load.
That's where the paper comes in.
Or should.
A small part of your column referred to changes in the paper: go back to printing court results; if your equipment can't print legibile copies of editorial cartoons, quit trying.
If the city has to chip in x amount of money, I wonder if it's possible to get volunteers to help work on the trail. I don't know about liability issues and stuff, since it is a state grant, but it might help defray some of the costs.
James is right too people, it is not only our tax structure, but the quality of life issue. No one is not going to go to some little old town that has not much to do in it. Not that i think a business or person is going to exactly move here because of a hike/bike trail. But the more there is to do, the more the appeal there is to outsiders. Or if someone does move here, maybe they tell their friends and family back home that this is not such a bad little town to live because there is a variety of things to do here. I absolutely used to hate the idea that they was going to redo downtown and take out parking spaces, but after awhile I got used to it. Now that they have pretty flowers in the pots,that I think go with the new lights much better, I really like the new downtown. They are so much more attractive then the plants that used to be in there.
Anyway, i think that we need to try all kinds of ways to boost our economic growth, because obviously whatever the town has been doing is not working. Things like beautifying downtown, putting in trails, having concerts like James' is stepping in the right direction.
If the city has to chip in x amount of money, I wonder if it's possible to get volunteers to help work on the trail.
>>>>>>>>>
Might be possible.
city's contribution does not have to be cash. Lot of it will be "in kind" stuff, such as labor and so forth.
ALSO
Creekstone gives the city 300-400,000 a year, and it has to be used on parks.
so basically there is no cost to the city.
say it is 500,000, creekstone's money is 400 of that, and the city gives 100 k in in kind services..
no actual money spent
Text book P/A.
It's a big stinky load.
That's where the paper comes in.
Or should.
>>>
THe papers job is not to promote your negative, cynical attitude which has no basis in reality.
You made generalized accusations towards groups.. with no specifics
and you're too chicken to put your name on it.
Sorry, the paper aint gonna support that.
Give me specifics. . and if you can find specifics, come to the city commission meeting and talk about them ... you cant hide who you are that way.
I stand in solidarity with the poster who made the comments regarding passive / aggressive actions.
Your comments were slightly difficult to apply in this instance not because what you said didn't make sense but because you were quite specific enough.
For those of us in this podunk areas who didn't get the chance to enjoy the same schoolin you apparently got, could you help us connect the dots just a little bit more?
For further conversation on how this applies or what to do to fix it, I would like to hear more from this poster.
acrenewal@gmail.com
Temper - Temper, JJ. Do you think you and Seaton and company always have the right opinions. I don't think a hike trail on top of a dike is quite the aminity, that it's going to take to draw the "speciality" doctor to Arkansas City. Has to be more of a hospital than this community can afford and a lot more numbers, [patients] that will make money for those doctors. Doctors familys are part of the decision where they live and Arkansas City will never have those aminities. Negative, sure but also fact.
I very respectfully disagree.
It is definitely the paper's job to present other alternatives and report on the way people feel about issues.
It is very easy to simply dismiss the issues by saying that there are a lot of "naysayers" and forget it and go on.
Too easy. Just to take the standard press release from the city and print it.
Nobody has to think that way.
Tell me exactly why the decision that was made years ago cannot be reviewed and rescinded today?
Show me another city in the US that has turned down contributing to a partial grant and cannot apply for another one now. (By the way, that is against layers upon layers of governmental policies and retribution against cities will never happen).
"Previous work done" sure didn't stop the bum's rush on the Lowe's. Why does it apply to only some things and not others?
Ark Citians should have the right to judge what happens with their money. Not just have it explained away in passive-aggressive storytelling.
$600,000 / 12,000 = 50 bucks per person. AC doesn't have the right to rescind that? I think they do.
If you dug deeper, it would be seen that most of these excuses that are presented are not real reasons at all.
I also frankly feel it would make a really good "investigative reporting" newspaper article.
But I also know the probability of ever seeing it.
If you dug deeper, it would be seen that most of these excuses that are presented are not real reasons at all.
I also frankly feel it would make a really good "investigative reporting" newspaper article.
>>>>>>>>>>>
I never said it could not be undone. It could be undone very easily. The commission could direct the CM to call the state and say fuggedabowdit, ... it would be that simple.
Wouldnt even take an ordinance. Just a simple majority voice vote.
I am all for presenting all sides of the argument and issues.
I didnt feel that was what you were advocating.
You were only stating opinions, and our job is not to promote the opinion of one person.
There are not many things that cannot be undone. Maybe not anything?
What you call excuses could be valid reasons. Thats just a blanket accusation that has no meaning. One could say youre just trying to find ways to criticize.
I just see some people always being against whatever the issue is ... you should think about that.
Tell me something you have supported...
Do you think you and Seaton and company always have the right opinions.
>>>
haha
i never said i was right. I just said what my opinion was.
Ill admit to having opinions.
Some other people who post on here should also admit that what they post is more opinion than fact.
The Seatons and I dont agree on everything.
Weve talked about doing "debates" on the edit page, with each of us writing a differeing view.
Whaddaya think ?
Yes that debate would be interesting. Just remember he pays for the ink :). Naysayer..
ha ha ok
we have done that before, it was a pretty amiable debate i think.
but i do always remember who pays for the ink :)
"Tell me something you have supported..."
Windows.
Economic development.
Industrial development.
Better education and industry / education coalitions.
Professional city management.
More city employee interaction with cohort peers in cities in other places.
Honesty in administration.
Direct punishment for juvenile offenders.
Better research of what other cities are doing to develop their towns.
and
Cutting through the official press release BS.
See: If it is presented as cutting through the BS, it is stated as a positive. Something to improve the town, which is what would happen.
Join or not. up to you.
Ok, show up at meetings and speak out then.
I have followed the progress of the bike path.
I have the facts on that, I am not just toting the company note.
You do accuse anyone who disagrees with you of just going with the city press release.
Cant we disagree and talk about the issues rather than be insulting?
Actually the city doesnt hand out press releases at all.
"A hiking trail? We already have one that nobody uses. Most people don't even know where it is."
----------------------------------
If you're speaking of the trail east of town on Kansas, I used to go there all the time until the ice storm messed up parts of it. Now that the bypass is out there, I don't really care to ride my bicycle out that way. Otherwise I now go to Veterens lake and the trail on Popular.
"If you're speaking of the trail east of town on Kansas, I used to go there all the time until the ice storm messed up parts of it."
$250,000.00
Think about it.
Also, the reply about the official city line was to the Aug 30, 3:36 PM. Because of the posting delay, it appeared to respond to a later post. JJ, I wasn't calling you passive aggressive.
I was saying that the standard explanations for why nothing can be done in any way other than the official line were based in passive aggressive arguments.
Sure, we can amicably disagree, but I'm firmly convinced that Ark City could review and change the hike bike trail at any time.
That arguments for or against his are not shut off because of some decision in the past 10 years.
for or against this
but I'm firmly convinced that Ark City could review and change the hike bike trail at any time.
>>>
Oh yea they could. Wouldnt be hard.
and it has been talked about by some commissioners.
You know what i think. :)
But the money couldnt be used for anything else. They would have to give it back to the state and some other town would get it..
And we would still be paying for it with our state taxes...
quality of life also includes having decent water and sewer systems, along with decent streets, decent trash service, etc the cost of those services also effects a citys growth, and ours are so high that they only deter newcomers, many choose winfield instead simply for the lower bills available but hey if ya all think a fancy football stadium and bike trail will make em come go for it and get back with me in a year or two with all the newcomers you attracted along with the resturants and motels that are gonna flock out there to be next to your 50 million dollar city funded and soon to be city paid for hospital...
That'll cost you extra! Ha-ha!
All of the society builders who started anything big in this world should have looked at all of the opposition and roadblocks and given up!
"But the money couldnt be used for anything else. They would have to give it back to the state and some other town would get it.."
Incredible. The $600,000 wouldn't go back, it wouldn't have to be spent on anything. At all.
It wouldn't have to be taxed or spent. If it were taxed, it could be spent on anything in the world.
This whole thing with the lame excuses and diversions is nothing but smoke and mirrors.
Incredible. The $600,000 wouldn't go back, it wouldn't have to be spent on anything. At all.
>>>>
YES it would. The state has already set the money aside for projects. There would be no savings. if the city sent it back, the state budget would not go down 600,000.
Youve got a one track mind and are not seeing the facts.
>>>>
It wouldn't have to be taxed or spent. If it were taxed, it could be spent on anything in the world.
Ive said several times already, the taxes have already been paid. This doesnt affect the taxes paid at all,
This whole thing with the lame excuses and diversions is nothing but smoke and mirrors.
No its reality.
There are programs in government that actually work and help people, and help smaller government entities.
Its called progress :)
and progress will triumph over naysaying eventually :)
You're kidding, right?
The $600,000 that Ark City has to dig into their pockets and match to "get" the grant has to go to the state and has to be spent somewhere?
That would be a first.
Check the facts.
You're kidding, right?
The $600,000 that Ark City has to dig into their pockets and match to "get" the grant has to go to the state and has to be spent somewhere?
That would be a first.
Check the facts.
>>
Here are the facts.
You still dont even understand how the system works.
There is a match, but much of that match can be "in kind"
the money for the match is available from money received from Creekstone for the tax break they got several years ago.
That creekstone money HAS to be spent for recreation.
Thats where the match money comes from, so basically no, ZERO, NADA, NONE, NO, NOT ANY, DO YOU UNDERSTAND ZERO>? , local tax money at all being spent.
Now the 600K is going to be awarded by the state to a grant applicant.
Ark city won it, if they gave it back it would just go to another town..
RESULTS of giving it back would be.
ZERO tax savings because the money is already appropriated.
Ark City would probably never get another grant...
THese are the facts
The money is not available for anything else.
if we were to give it back it would go to someone else
The taxes have already been paid to the state....
Why should we not get some money from the state?
it is our money as you say.
I thought the state was paying $1.2 million and Ark City was paying $600,000.
A "hike and bike trail to nowhere" is not the only use the Ark City's $600,000 can be spent on.
Don't say it is. It is a mis-statement. Or another name.
And don't say it has to be given back. That is not true either.
And don't say that the monies received from Creekstone don't have to be spent, but AC could keep the money and provide "in-kind" services which don't cost them anything. That is fraud and is illegal.
Earmarked to recreation? Yep.
There are dozens of better places it could be spent.
I wonder what Creekstone thinks.
Maybe a $600,000 park in the north side area would be more to their liking.
Everyone says there isn't money for skateboards, rec center, etc. Maybe there really is.
Everyone says there isn't money for skateboards, rec center, etc. Maybe there really is.
Very interesting point!
Bike path is mostly for the adults, and a skatepark is mostly for the kids. Hmmmm...
Suggestion for the paper changes: How bout putting a "What's going around," something like what Kake News does in the morning to let viewers know what illnesses may be going on around town. Maybe once or twice a week. Or would this make AC go totally paranoid?
let viewers know what illnesses may be going on around town. Maybe once or twice a week. Or would this make AC go totally paranoid?
>>>
Yea, i think it would make people too paranoid.
can you imagine the rumor mill that would be working overtime.
That's almost a guaranteed paranoia.
ha
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