There was a good debate and good public discussion at the city commission meeting Tuesday night. They voted down the establishment of a Tax Increment District, which was the first step in looking into bringing a Lowes to town.
There were about 200 people there and about 30 spoke. Most spoke in favor. according to my count, there were 20 for it, 12 against it ... and there were two that I really could not tell which side they were on.
The debate centers around the idea of protecting local merchants versus taking advantage of an opportunity.
It is hard to say what the effect of a Lowe's would be on the city. There were good arguments on both sides.
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Late in the meeting Scott Margolius took another cheap shot at the Traveler. Don't know if you saw it, but he was jeered a bit for making a trite remark about us having taken a position on the issue.
We have not taken a position and neither have I. (But even if we did, that wouldn't be wrong.)
But I hope the commissioner realizes these things can go both ways.
He has done that a few times during public meetings for no apparent reason.
**
Pretty late about now. Ill try to blog more on this later.
This is a larger issue than a Tif district or a Lowes.
The real underlying issue is what do we want Arkansas City to be.
And what are we willing to do to make that happen.
During meetings commissioners have repeatedly said the local merchants have to "step up to the plate."
They are right about that.
We cannot expect the commission - or the city government - to do it for us.
Their job is to provide basic services and keep the peace so that we, the citizens, can make things happen.
***
more tomorrow.
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23 comments:
I don't think it matters what we want Ark City to be. The commissioners are going to do as they please. I think that was very obvious last night.
That is not the way that democracy is supposed to work. Those people were elected to REPRESENT us, and we have the civic duty to hold them to that. If they refuse to listen to our wishes, we have the right to recall them out of office.
The commissioners did represent us! Not everyone thinks alike as was obvious at the meeting and I think a lot more people are against this that were not willing to speak out. Everyone kept saying that it is easy to be a naysayer. Not in this instance! One of the speakers at last night's meeting was called a Bastard to his face on the streets of downtown today. Are you still proud of your town? It is easy to say that a big shiney lowes is good for the town, after all we all shop there right? It's much harder to actually look at the studies and examples and see that it won't be good for us and stand up against your friends and say no. The other thing that bugged me last night was the number of older folks who have made the decisions in this town for years while the town has declined complaining that the young people are leaving. Look around! We came back! We were there, most of the speakers against the lowes, including the Bastard and the business owners were all under 40. Maybe it's time, for a change, to start listening to the young ones, not the same old people. Thanks Scott, Doty and Mel for listening to everyone!
Their have been many comments made of all the youmg people leaving Ark City. All my kids have left town because people like the three commisoners voting down growth.It has been happening for years and the young people of the area are leaving for bigger and better things.We could be the bigger and better thing if we had commisoner that went with what the people wanted and not for their own personal gain. Mainly the one that do not want compatision (Mayor Smith & Mel Kuhn)not for sure about Scott he has his wifes familys coat tails to ride on.
Scott is also a young people. I was not aware that Lowe's had rental houses or did plumbing? How are they competition for Smith or Kuhn? If anything they would be a cheep supply for Mel. Can no one believe that these commissioners listened to the real majority that didn't want this. It's true.
Your right scott is a young person but I would bet he would not of moved to our town if his father-in-law had not given him his job. And Lowes will have plummers and contractor working though them so there is competition
i agree they have contractors working under them and mr kuhn knows that. thats why he really voted no
Why didn't the commission ask the people that attended for a vote. A show of hands or even aye's and nay's would have stood out. Were they afraid that the truth of the majority would have come out? How can they claim they represent the people if they don't even ask?
Who was the attorney that Curis Eaton brought in and how did he get time with the big box guys. How did a private citizen get an attorney (who works only for who hired him) to speak out BEFORE the public hearing? Was this a setup? They did not ask to speak, the Mayor specifically called them to the microphone.
I want to know more about how this was set up and who all knew about it. Why did Curtis Eaton and his lawyer get special treatment?
Was it not obvious that three of the Commissioners had discussed this in private before the meeting. Dotty, Mel and Scott are the ones that wanted to change the Commission quorum requirements so they can conduct city business behind closed doors. They do not want representative government they want to help out their friends.
Anyone can ask ahead of time to be put on the city meeting agenda and get 15 min. to talk. The developers took way over their 15 min. to lie to us and Eaton's lawyer only spoke 8 min. and was only giving general TIF info. Why are you so upset that the truth about TIFs came out. Don't you think we deserve all the info. on TIF we can get before we set a precedent with one? Eaton's lawyer was also very open about who hired him and why he was there, He was the only lawyer there who was open with this type of info.
Lowes hires local plumers, they very well could have hired Mel's guy's. Also Doti could have gotten supplies for her rentals there. This was NOT their personal decisions. They did talk to a lot of people who were too scared for their businesses to speak in public and after all I've read here maybe they were the smart business owners. It takes a lot to stand up and fight in public for what you believe is right and the business owners and commissioners deserve better treatment. Who do you think you will have to vote for next time? What idiot would risk this kind of treatment for doing what they thought was right? No one with any brains will even run thanks to you. It's OK to disagree, even down right American, but it's not OK to threaten people, call them names and that is the least of what has happened here.
No one took into consideration the businesses that would have gained from this...and there are plenty. Having more people employed, having more people with jobs that have benefits, having more traffic in town to purchase other goods and goods from the ones who swear we would shut them down has been ignored. This was not a bad thing...not moving into this century is a bad thing. The commissioners are not bad people they were just brain washed by people who have personal vendettas against those that might have gained from this. This town never wants anyone to do well and if you are successful you become the bad guy. Attacks on Ark City Industries...please...at least they have done something...where is the rest of those shooting at them. what have they done? Perhaps their own agendas would have been promoted by a retail operation and they could get the industry here. We have to take steps forward...no steps mean we are paralyzed or that we would rather sit on our backsides and collect welfare or as the school superintendent said...get free lunches. How sad.
How many more low paying, minimum wage, no benefits jobs do we need here? None, in my opinion. And industry is one thing, a retail store is a completely different thing. I wouldn't mind a Lowe's at all, would love it in fact. BUT, I DO MIND BIG BUSINESS WITH BIG BUCKS GETTING BREAKS AND SPECIAL FAVORS, that the middle and lower classes are not given. It doesn't just happen here, it happens with all city and federal levels because they allow these big businesses to bully them in this way, i.e. If you don't give us what we want, we will go elsewhere. Big business also uses these tatics on their employees, vendors, etc. Wal Mart dictates to their vendors what they will pay for the product, how they are to be boxed and shipped, and more and you know what? it affects everyone, because when Wal Mart or any other big business gets away with that then the little guy suffers, like the employees of the vendor who gets a smaller raise when Wal Mart wants to pay the same price for a product several years in a row. And, if any of you have seen the special on Wal Mart, then you know how they really treat their employees. They do give to charity and such, but a lot of big business do nice things to detract away from the bad they do or cause, sorry but a smoke screen is a smoke screen. Lowe's is very welcome here, at least from me, but they should pay their own way and stop trying to bully some small town hurting economically into giving them all kinds of breaks to locate there. I wish more cities and states would follow suit and start saying no to these kinds of things. Big businesses like these are taking over and are able to do so because they demand and get what they want, and that may be the way it is, but that doesn't make it right! It's not right, and that is why things continue to get worse and worse for middle and low income wage earners, which most of us here in Ark City are. Big business has gotten so powerful anymore that we have to bow down or suffer, but I don't mind suffering a little if my only other choice is to bow down to someone.... JMHO
AN open letter to the Citizens of Arkansas City:
There has been much damge done by those who did not get their way last night. Murmurings of a recall vote, boycotting the retailers, name calling and yes even a tire slashing and paint scratching on a businessman's car....SHAME ON YOU!
Give us some FACTS on how Lowe's would help build industry here.
Fact is Retail does not build Industry, it is the other way around. Industry creates retail.
Come on, Scott Margolis, Mel Kuhn, and Doty all did what they believed to be right for the city. Seems like you are all mad because you wanted a Lowes to shop at. What about the amount of courage they had to stand up to the ArkCity MAFIA aka Ark City Industries!! This was the first time any commission took a stand against these old money power players. By the way...Blue Skies was the one that put Scott Margolis on the ballot and supported him, they approached Scott, he did not approach them.
I don't agree with the war in Iraq and I didn't vote for Bush so whenever he does something I don't like I gather it is ok if I call for his impeachment and ignore his decision? Thats what I gather from those that didn't get their ways last night.
To the person with the
AN open letter to the Citizens of Arkansas City
You will never get a chance to see any facts because the commissioners ended it before they could be proposed. There were a lot of estimations but never any details. The only thing they really had was about how much it would cost to build. Did the facts include local contractors? Did the facts give how much could be drawn into the city? Did the facts say how much of the taxes we get to keep? Did the facts say how many more people would be employed or even how much they might pay? Did the facts say their might be other benefits to the city? How in the world can we ever know? It would have cost us nothing to go to the next step. Unless there is a secret the commission doesn't want us to know. I can think of no other reason for not finding out.
Did you see what Dotty said,
Smith posted a defense of her position on the blog Wednesday, "and I got crucified on there."
She got crucified out there...I don't know why she would say that. I bet crification is a little worse than that.
Ark City is no place to live. Its biggest export is meth. There are some good people there, but there are even more bad, which is sad. Get out of Ark City while you still can.
I just found out that the downtown businesses get a 95% tax rebate on repairs or improvements that goes right back into their pockets. The big box would have got a 100% tax rebate that all of it had to go to paying for the street and utilities improvements. This was the level playing field the downtown businesses where complaining about. The commissioners already knew this.
"""Did you see what Dotty said,
Smith posted a defense of her position on the blog Wednesday, "and I got crucified on there."
She got crucified out there...I don't know why she would say that. I bet crification is a little worse than that.
Ark City is no place to live. Its biggest export is meth. There are some good people there, but there are even more bad, which is sad. Get out of Ark City while you still can."""
PLEASE, OH PLEASE....YOU FIRST!!! LEAVE!!!!!!!
When do we get back to what the people want? Almost everyone I've talked to or heard from wanted this project. Shouldn't our representatives have looked into getting what we want? Shouldn't they have at least tried? I don't know about the rest of you but I've completely lost faith in the people we elected to do as we ask. I shudder to think how they might work against us next.
In case anyone didn't notice, the meeting Tuesday night wasn't an election. It was a public hearing. There is nothing anywhere in a democracy that indicates a bully crowd at a single meeting gets what they want. How foolish. We don't want elected officials to be so easily manipulated.
yeah, we sure don't want the commission manipulated by the people. they might actually do what we want them to do.
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