Someone asked about where to find that 77 corridor study. Ive looked around most of the afternoon and cant seem to put my fingers on it.
Ill keep looking.
Ill find it and let you know.
there are also other points raised id like to address, but that will have to wait a bit. Ill hopefully get to that later tonight or tomorrow.
One point I want to make is that opportunity we have here.
We have lots of energy going right now, and much of it negative. Its understandable. people are disappointed, enraged, upset ... lots of feelings going around.
But the good thing is everyone is talking. Now we need to keep talking.
We have good people on both sides who feel passionately that they are right and that the other side is wrong.
There's probably some truth to both sides here, and no one is totally wrong.
The thing is though, to take this energy and do something positive with it.
THe real debate is what we want the future to be.
We also need people of action.
I still believe differences can be made, and I think a lot of people on here posting could do a lot of good if they could get together and get some common goals going.
So keep talking people.
Lets also start showing up at meetings. Question everything, and think about everything, and then offer ideas. Of course, if you offer an idea, that - to me at least - implies some ownership and a willingness to work toward that idea.
You probably know about the concert I helped get started last year. I talked to a lot of people before I got started, including city people. The city did help, but only after I had a plan in mind and means to accomplish the goal at hand. The city gave me no money, but they did let me use things that are available to the public such as stages, tables, portapoties, and even the field where it was held.
I still had to do the work.
I just want to encourage everyone to keep talking and to try to make things happen.
If we can do this, then the big box flap will have a positive outcome.
Blaming and pointing fingers is ok for awhile, even theraputic, but maybe its time to move ahead and make something good happen.
What do you think ?
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19 comments:
One day, you fine Ark Citians will wake up and realize that your Mayor saved your city.
How many quality stores has Wal-Mart killed downtown in the last 20 years or so.
Don't you think Lowe's would have a similar, if not larger impact?
Shop at locally owned stores and keep your money in your hometown. Don't send it off to Arkansas or God-Knows-Where.
We have some common goals as outlined in the Cowley County Economic Development Partnership's Vision 20/20 document. Thousands of people were involved "through focus groups, community meetings, breakfast meetings and a survey."
As Sid Regnier presented at the city commission meeting, 87% of respondants favored bringing in new retail outlets and restaurants.
Two of the Vision 20/20 goals are to "provide INCENTIVES to develop more retail businesses" and to
"expand the number and variety of retail businesses in the county."
Members of Arkansas City Industries did exactly what you are proposing ... they went to work and developed a proposal that did exactly what the majority wanted.
Unfortunately, all of their efforts were wasted with a quick vote by three of our city commissioners ... who clearly had their minds made up in advance. What incentive is there for anyone else to work that hard for the future of the community, only to have it all go to waste?
They were not given the opportunity to try to negotiate a different deal. They were simply told "NO".
The goals in the Vision 20/20 document are very specific. As mentioned above, it asks "to provide INCENTIVES to develop more retail businesses". The proposal brought by Arkansas City Industries did exactly that.
Perhaps if the city commission endorsed specific goals for the document, then citizens would feel more confident in working towards them without the fear of having all their efforts thwarted in the end.
What the comments made at the meeting/vote shows is the narrow minds in Ark City/Winfield. They will cut off their noses to spite their faces. I lived in Winfield (unfortunately) for about 7 years, I escaped back to Tulsa, OK. TIF's are a way for small towns (check out King's Landing in Jenks, OK) and some larger cities to pull in retail establishments for new shopping centers where the cost is minimal to the city. Even though some of the tax monies goes towards paying off the TIF, there is still money made for the town plus more jobs for the citizens. Ark City and Winfield has to look at the bigger picture. It's great to have small retail businesses opening up, but you have to realize that 80% of those businesses will close after the first year or two. If Ark City doesn't want another big box store like Walmart, there are shopping centers to be had with smaller stores in them.
By the way, once I moved back to Tulsa....I very seldom ever go into a Walmart store, why should I when Tulsa has soooo many other stores?
I just found out that the downtown businesses get a 95% tax rebate on repairs and improvements to their property that goes right back into their pockets. The big box would have got a 100% rebate on the improvements but all of it had to go towards paying off the street and utility improvements. This is the LEVEL PLAYING FIELD the downtown merchants were whining about. The commissioners already knew this.
This is the LEVEL PLAYING FIELD the downtown merchants were whining about. The commissioners already knew this.
I didnt think it was 95 percernt, but .. it is a good point.
The level playing field is a slippery slope argument.
The downtown merchants do get advantages, as Joel Hockenbury pointed out.
When they opened they had water, sewer, streets ... all the things the TIF would have paid for.
NOW they get their streets taken care of, the parking lots taken care of, and their water and sewer connections taken care of ... at... ahem, no cost.
THey also were the beneficiaries of the $3 million Streetscape project, that we the citizens paid for with tax money.
City officials will say that what is available on the rebate is for historical restoration ... and that is true, so it is technically different than getting money through a TIF.
Ok, but ... if you have $100 in your pocket, do you really care which pocket it is? :)
AC Native: also a good point, but the world is changing and businesses have to adjust.
The question of whether to protect local business is a good one, and one that should be debated.
Charles - es it looks like that study has been ignored ... one of my chief complaints about Ark City - Cowley County is that these studies are done every few years, everyone smiles and puts them on shelves never to be seen again.
I thought it was revealing that I could not find the corridor study - the original - on the internet yesterday ... though i did find a few synopsis that held no real information.
MAR
I came from Columbia, S.C., a fairly large city ... i didnt go to wal mart all that much.
I wont be too upset at the commission if they get busy and work hard to promote business and do positive things for the city.
they do need to prove to us - the citizens - that they have a better plan than the lowes deal.
im still trying to get my hands on that plan.
The tax break exists, but many don't use it because the improvements are then tacked onto the tax valuation at the end of the process. Tax appraisal on downtown businesses is very aggressive.
To say that the downtown businesses don't have access to a program similar to a TIF is incorrect. Whether they choose to use it is another matter.
On a $30,000 unimproved building in Ark City, you can expect to pay $1500 to $1800 in taxes per year. Same building in Newkirk is about $200 per year.
Where a TIF and the downtown rebate goes toward reimbursing out of pocket expenses, First Intermark got an abatement. An abatement means no taxes are paid during the 10 year period.
Tax abatements are commonly used to bring in new industry or improve old ones. Almost all of the industries in the area are under a tax abatement.
To say that Lowes would be getting a special treatment in a TIF that is not available one way or another to others in Ark City is pure hogwash and the city officials know it.
A lot has been made of the benefits provided by Ark City to businesses downtown by the Streetscape project. It was primarily Kansas Dept of Transportation funding that did the Streetscape.
The elephant in the room is First Intermark.
Their tax abatement is about over.
Will they try to extend the abatement?
Will they leave?
What are taxes on that business property with a valuation of the building in the million dollar range?
I've come to some new conclusions. There are no elephants in any room. Call and ask all the people you write about instead of talking about them without asking. It's only destructive, and it is not getting us anywhere. People are more honorable than we bloggers give credit for sometimes. All the people I run into in this town are basically good. They just don't know what to do to make things better. James has given us some pointers. Sometimes it's easier to gripe, but that gets nothing done. Ask. I've started to, and it's interesting. Even helpful. It's the most honest thing to do, and we will actually get answers. What if we've been completely unfair and the commissioners we asked to change things for us actually bring us something even BETTER than what was proposed? By the way, they did make a step for change. We just didn't agree with it. I'm not sure that makes it wrong. Just what if maybe we didn't give them a fair shake in the first place since we don't know their plans? We said we wanted change. We've got it. I appreciate James words about South Carolina. Maybe we need to do more talking to all these people and give them a little credit and time to see how this plays out and what we can do to help. For me, I'm big enough to say it's time to quit pointing fingers on the internet and actually engage all these people we've been talking about to see what their plans are and how we can help. If that's too hard, then maybe we ought to shut up. I for one, plan to get involved and see what our commissioners are thinking in case it's better than what we've assumed. If it's not, I plan to get involved, again, like James Jordan said, and make my voice known.
At the meeting on Tuesday, they described the annexation of the land (which had been done at the prevous meeting) as "tentative". Is that now revoked?
It is so very good that the Commissioners blew this one out of the water because they have a better secret plan that is going to bring something else to the city. Ark City is so fortunate to have such forward thinking leaders. I can't wait to hear the good news.
Yes, the annexation will now be reversed, based on the agreement with the city and the land owners.
It was discussed at the prior meeting.
Come On Ralph McDonald.... let your brother fight his own fights.....LOL
As for letting my brother fight his own fights, he usually has to fight with me. I don't always agree with my brother. I didn't agree with him on that silly driveway issue. I don't agree with him on home owner rights. I didn't necessarily agree with him on this issue either. I have always been a constitutionalist. I've always said that the commissioners are the servants of the people to do the will of the people. I will also say this. at the end of the night, I shook hands with each commissioner.
yah, but now you are probably sitting at home in your underwear bashing them or are all these posts from Pat?
For the record:
I have been watching these comments the last few days but not posting to them. For those of you that read the traveler talk you will note that I always use my own name and usually, though sometimes I forget, additionally sign them at the bottom as being either a commissioner, a downtown merchant, or as just a citizen.
I have been watching the various comments back and forth including facts and misinformation, pats on the back and name calling. As a commissioner I need to watch and gather information, if it calms down I will try to correct details and add facts. Right now I'm sure nobody is ready to listen or believe. There is a lot of rumor and misinformation mixed in with the facts.
I provided James with the Corridor Study so you could have the correct information. He neglected to add in the information about the size of the proposed store so I added that on another post, using my own name.
If you have a question, ask. If you have a comment feel free to direct it at me. If you want to email me personally my email address is pmcdonald2005@sbcglobal.net
I still represent the people. I represent the majority. I appreciate those that are in the minority and how strongly they feel. I do not blame them for trying to convince people to their side. My job is to try to stay neutral but still provide the facts and vote the will of the people.
I'll try to comment from time to time just so everyone knows I am interested, I am watching, and I am trying to participate when I can.
By the way, between now and Christmas I'm hoping my shop will be very busy so I might not be able to watch as closely as I should. I hope you'll forgive me for a bit.
Patrick McDonald
Arkansas City Commissioner
Nice Advertisement For Your Shop Commissioner.
Come on all you proponents, go shop there.
Keep the boycott going.
You're right and I'm sorry. That wasn't the way I intended it. I just wanted people to know I wouldn't be as available the next few days as I usually am.
Patrick McDonald
He neglected to add in the information about the size of the
store so I added that on another post, using my own name.
>>>>>>>
It was on there patrick. I included the chart. I thought I was pretty clear ? i guess not.
On the one hand it says a lowe's is too big, and on the other hand, it says a lowes ( a smaller one ) would work ...
Hey i dont have any problem with you plugging your business just a little.
:)
I did find an amazing book at Patrick's one day. It was called DAKOTA, a spiritual geography.
Not sure its still in print, but it really gets to the psychology of a small town .
LEts keep the debate going.
I believe the debate can be a good thing ... the name calling is a bit much, but ... the process itself can help us all.
james
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