Our latest poll question shows that 75 percent of the people believe the city did not fairly represent them by rejecting the big box TIF district proposal.
As people have voted the past few days, the percentage has not changed.
Right now its
238 - 78
Anyway, I got to wondering.
We did a poll late in November, about a month ago, on the TIF district.
The vote, published in the Traveler on Nov. 30, showed :
243, or 41 percent supported the TIF
320, of 54 percent did not support the TIF
32 were not sure.
Interesting.
The tide defintely has turned.
What do you make of this?
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26 comments:
I like many others feel the town was not represented at best. There does seem to be a lot of people wanting the big box in Ark City.
I for one am for it. I was an employee of Wal Mart for over 8 years and remember the opposition to it coming to town. As Sam Walton would say then and now, the existing business needs to see how they can meet the needs that Wal Mart and Lowes does not.
With Lowes we would have more jobs than are now in any existing business that may be affected and at higher starting wages.
I like many others spend thousands of dollars a year in Oklahoma and Wichita that I would not if it were here. We have lost those sales,taxes and jobs but could have gained in the future.
I even had a building project of over $1000 and went locally and asked if they would meet Lowes prices. They turned me down and I went to Lowes in Ponca and saved over $300.
They did not try to meet the needs of a local resident just like the City Commission did not last week.
It could have been the way the question was phrased, or how the answer was displayed.
Or perhaps the information got out about what we might be able to get?
For those in the know there is a way to cheat the system. Now that it doesn't matter there is no reason to cheat. Not that there should have been a reason to cheat an unscientific poll anyways.
Has anyone organized the recall yet? There is no further information in the traveler about it.
Has anyone organized the recall yet? There is no further information in the traveler about it.
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no one has turned in paperwork for it.. One person did ask about a form at the county office, but has not picked it up.
Nothing has changed since Friday.
This is a strange day, Monday, and the day before Christmas.
No one is working, even if they are at work :)
If anyone is organizing such a thing, let me know too.
James
I would have hard time believing that anyone who sought to initiate a formal recall would not be advised that nothing has occurred to support it. Recalls must meet very limited state criterion for approval. It would trigger an election and therefore would have to be sanctioned.
Why is it so restricted? In this information age, we have too many opportunities and access to so much information to accompany our right to elect leadership.
The democratic process allows us to pick our leadership with a reasonable frequency (in our case every two years).
With the stakes so high for our community, maybe it is time that we take a look at the process and the system of government.
This is the first time in ages that the Mayor has presided over an evenly split council. What a situation for someone to be in when the process for determining the Mayor seat is acclamation or tradition.
Is it time for Arkansas City to define the Mayor's seat for election? Should we be voting for two commissioners and one Mayor every two years? Would that give the voice of the mayor a notably different tenor than the other council members?
Several comparable sized communities elect a Mayor every two years. They argue that it creates an opportunity for more continuity from among the elected officials.
How much change are we ready for in Arkansas City? Maybe that is the petition that should be circulated. An elected Mayor (2 yr terms) would change the commission dynamics. More importantly, it would move us off high center.
Mayoral candidates would have to present a strong visionary position in campaigning rather than opting to blend into the mix.
sure sounds like charles to me :)
and id agree too.
Let's see here.
The council and the Mayor have agreed to allow the TIF, we go on with the project, spend and enormous amount of money for surverys and studies, hire all these things done outside, because we would not want even the slighest hint of impropriety, less someone says the "fix" was in", or it was "brother 'n law deal".
The studies show, based on the information available that this will not work.
Now who will jump on the band wagon, call for recalls because we could have saved all theat money from studies wedidn't need, had we just used the one in front of us, and sought to take a diffrent route to obtain the same goal.
I may be wrong, but, if the chamber and the city approached lowes, or southerland, homedepot, whoever with the proposal of building here, and see what if any concessions that THEY are looking for, or if THEY are even intrested in locating here.Has anyone thought to ask them?
So far the developers, and some private organizations are the ones who will profit whether or not the companies locate here or not.
Just my .02. Some fuel for the fire.
See my responses below\>
The council and the Mayor have agreed to allow the TIF, we go on with the project, spend and enormous amount of money for surverys and studies,
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actually the developer would have paid all those costs, the city would have spent nothing.
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>
The studies show, based on the information available that this will not work.
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the studies are inconclusive. On one hand it says no to lowes, but says a smaller lowes would work,.. a smaller lowes was what was being proposed
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may be wrong, but, if the chamber and the city approached lowes, or southerland, homedepot, whoever with the proposal of building here, and see what if any concessions that THEY are looking for,
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ahem, thats what they did ... you dont deal with lowes direct, you go through a developer... thats just how business is done.
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or if THEY are even intrested in locating here.Has anyone thought to ask them?
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lowes said it would come if they got the TIF ...
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So far the developers, and some private organizations are the ones who will profit whether or not the companies locate here or not.
>>>>
that is the nature of business....
the only legitimate reason i can see for turning it down is to protect local business ... which is legitimate ...
its a tough call really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..
Just my .02. Some fuel for the fire.
:)
Considering the heavy handed and clumsy way the Lowes deal was handled, do you really want these people trying to market Ark City to other developers/companies?
Well, that's .04. Is anyone else interested in donating.
Merry Christmas to all!
I would like to see Ark City grow.
But let us be honest, unless we bring in some business... it ain't gonna happen. Come on people, we must have employment in this City. Personally, I don't care whether they bank in China... the checks to those whom they employ of this city, will or at least could be cashed here.
(my .02)
. Come on people, we must have employment in this City. Personally, I don't cae whether they bank in China
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We do have jobs. Many businesses can't get people to come work.
Ive been without a news editor for months, though i do have one coming.
Its a vicious cycle ... you dont have the people who are qualified, so businesses wont come cause they know they wont be able to get people..
one reason you cant, is housing, but no one is building housing because of the lack of people.
round and round it goes.
where are the visionairies :)
merry Christmas to all
jj
Ok. j.j. you're right. But I think we keep looking at the glass that's half empty.
Let's look for the positive and believe for the best. The town grows as we the people grow. We need 'a new attitude'.
Merry Christmas
I heard that the developer is still interested. Why not put the question on the ballot for the people to indicate what they want. Maybe the commission would change their minds if there was a proven majority at the ballot box. Remember, a majority showing up at a hearing isn't necessarily a majority.
I don't know how you would figure a majority. The letters to the editor were more for this than against, though that could be sorting by the people at the traveler. The petitions show a considerable advantage for, but then again there were no petitions against (by the way, what happened to those petitions?). The people speaking out at the hearing were 3 to 1 for it. And now the poll is going 3 to 1 for it. I guess it all depends on what your idea of a majority is. Another question. Who represents the majority?
At the Traveler we did not sort through the letters. THey all ran.
It is possible one might have gotten lost somehow, but every one that I was aware of got into the paper.
Both sides claim to have a majority.
Our poll is showing people for it now, but a poll in November showed more against it.
more on the role of a majority....
http://www.laissez-fairerepublic.com/RepVsDem.htm
LaVeta said...
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Possibilities
Wednesday, December 26, 2007
Possibilities
In order to have a recall, it will take three registered voters to do the paperwork. I am curious as to if anyone has picked up the appropriate form from Karen Brooks? I have read several times that individuals were willing to sign the paper but I did not read that anyone has actually started the paperwork. Furthermore, I would like to know what the crime is that these three have committed? Essentially, the recall brings legal charges against them. Do we have anything that would stand up in court? Please let me know if any of you have the form, what your intentions are, and if there are any other possibilities to resolving this issue with our city commissioners. It is not enough to just complain, if you don't like what is happening take action. Do something about it. Get involved in the City Commission Meetings, vote, attend local party meetings, support candidates, or run yourself for office. I know I do not plan to stay by watching. I plan to take action. Let me know if you are willing to go with me.
Posted by LaVeta at 1:41 PM 0 comments
Labels: big box, city, commisioners, Lowes, recall
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December 26, 2007 4:00 PM
Has anyone noticed that there were 585 votes in the November poll and there are only 381 votes in the present poll? It must have been a much hotter issure in November than it is now. Or maybe there is something else we don't know???
Has anyone noticed how many people in the room that night had a relationship with Home National, were an employee, or were in some way affiliated? But no they said they were sitting this one out. Sounds like the developer to me when they couldnt remember if they'd been at Winfield's doorstep first. Talk about smoking guns and hidden agendas!
About a recall -- you must show a felony, misconduct in office, or failure to carry out duties of the office. The issue is whether or not the action of the commission will rise to meet the test required to get a recall petition approved. Convince me and I will start the process.
If this development could have brought jobs, new taxes, other improvements, brought more people to town to shop, and could have been beneficial to the city, wouldn't it have been the commission's duty and obligation to bring it in? If the commission shut it down before they had all of the information, did they not do their duty in finding out more by not going to the next step? When all of the petitions came in did the commission spend any time looking them over and finding out how many people were trying to make a statement? Wasn't the public hearing specifically to listen to the people? How many times during these past few weeks has the commission failed to do its duty? If you can't find a reason for a recall it is only because you don't want to look.
The November poll was worded in such a way as to elicit a vote against the TIF.
I agree about the question in the poll...it wasnt worded correctly and I think it mislead people about the TIF and where that money would come from.
If you can't find a reason for a recall it is only because you don't want to look.
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THere is no reason.
There has to be illegal activity of some sort, and they did nothing illegal.
Disagreeing with a decision is not grounds for a recall.
I do think its time we moved on from that..
how many are going to show up at the next meeting?
I don't know. What's on the agenda? If all we're going to do is listen to a rehash of the past few days. I'm going to shovel snow.
If there is something constructive going on, I will get someone else to do it (if I can find someone who wants to work...I don't need a bobcat to shovel my side walk and drive way).
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