Really got people going last week with the immigration thing.
I would say there is a difference between "being" a racist and having racially bad attitudes.
I guess everyone knows by now that the racism thing - or racist attitudes - is a hot button for me.
I dont want to call anyone that word. But when you go blaming problems on a certain race of people - i don't know what else you can call it.
Here is another post office story, from a different angle.
In South Carolina, a hot August afternoon. I pull up to the post office. All my windows are down, no auto-windows on this car. I have $3,000 worth of camera equipment laying in the seat.
Need to mail a package and have to go inside to pay postage.
Small post office in a rural area. When i drive up to the door there is no one around except this one guy standing by the door. He is black. Doesn't look unusual at all. He is just standing there. At the door, five feet or so from my car.
I really think i would have had the same concern if it had been a white guy, hispanic guy or whatever. Or even if it had been a female :) .
My concern was that I had to leave my camera stuff in the car and it was an easy target. And to roll up the windows would make it obvious that I did not trust the person, which is what was bothering me more than anything.
I was also concerned that he would think it was because of his color that I was locking up my car.
and as I said, these were manual windows. four of them. so whatever i did, would be obvious ..
So what to do?
What would you do?
Posts
56 comments:
I would lock my doors.
I am upset about ILLEGAL immigration no matter what their race is. I would not break the law or expect something for nothing. To me it is like saying a poor person should be able to rob a bank because they are poor, why would we not want to help them -- are we not sensitive to their problems? ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL!!
How about some anti-racism here?
What is it you know about white folk that makes you think they "won't" steal from you? My personal experience is that they will steal as much if not more than any other group. Yeah. Lock the door and put the stuff out of sight in the trunk.
I said in the post that i would have had the same concern regardless of what race the person was - or even what sex. Women steal too, ive heard. :)
The thing to me was, that I was having to basically secure the car right in the guys face, which made it different to me. Had there been a full parking lot and so forth, i wouldnt have given it a thought.
If you always roll up your windows and lock your doors automatically, you never even think about it as being an affront to anyone.
It's a good idea anyway.
Years ago I had an employee who parked his car across from the cop shop in the Cowley lot and left his windows down and car unlocked. He had beer in the back seat.
The beer was stolen. He then turned in the "theft" to the police. He was under age.
I laughed so hard I thought I was going to lose it.
They didn't arrest him because there was no beer.......
At times I have forgotten to lock up my car.
The only place anyone ever stole anything of note, was a camera when my car was parked in Winfield.
James, from your food for thought post on the 21st, you are the one that needs an attitude ajustment. It's O.K. for Illegals to come to Ark City, but not from Arkansas. How racist is that?
Now as to your question, if you don't leave stuff out in plain site, no one will steal it I don't care what color they are. The smart thing to do is put it in the trunk.
Arkansas isn't a type of race... you can change where you live you can't change the color of your skin.
He was joking....
Ok, I read all the posts and here is the Question that has to be addressed.
Can we knowingly or even unknowingly contribute to "Evil" while doing what we think is "Good"?
In the case of the camera - by removing the opportunity for theft-"Your responsibilty" there is no opportunity!
On the illegal and illegal issue
by creating or fulfilling a demand - we also contribute to the acts of others - those who profit -the people that are paid to smuggle them to and across the boarder, those who make false I.D.'s. and those who hire them to fill jobs.
Sorry, but you can be guilty by association, acting irresponsible and even by Greed!
Good and evil have to be more fundamental than that.
There is inherent human good, which most people understand. It is the kind of good your preacher would tell you about. Aid, compassion understanding, etc.
There can't be good that comes out of people gossiping, associating other people into "guilt", sneaking, hating, discriminating and maybe even imprisoning. Call it something else. It can't be called good. Not even "Good Lite".
Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
(Matt 7:16)
The whole concept of good and evil cannot be so fleeting that it can be completely reversed if the government makes a policy change. Good is way more important and lasting than that.
Good is in the heart and how we treat our fellow man.
James,
You seem to like telling personal stories to make a point, so heres mine.
My husband and I were traveling up the i-95 corridor on vacation. We stopped at a gas station off one of the King's Dominion exits. I remember that it was near the end of July or early August and it was close to 100 outside [the heat index was higher]
We seen a silver semi parked on the other side of the gas pumps. It didn't look like a cattle carrier but had smaller holes.
Didn't think anything of it until we seen fingers coming out of those holes [from inside].
We seen 2 or 3 guys getting out of the cab area. One went inside the store and the other 2 stood near the truck.
I assume the people inside were told in no uncertain terms not to make any noise because you would think there would be 'help us' cries coming from them, but there was no noise.
At first, my mind couldn't believe what my eyes were seeing.
Then every ounce of me was trying to figure out how to run over there , get the back open and let those people out!!
[later on found out the drivers had guns]
We ended up calling the HP and FBI with the tag number.
They were caught later on farther up the corridor near Maryland I think, either way, it was all over the news 2 days later.
There were men women and children on that transport.
At least 6 were dead, many in critical condition and all severely dehydrated.
Guns or no guns, part of me still feels like a coward for not doing more to get those people out of that truck.
No one should have to die that way!!!!
I don't give a flip where they came from or what their skin color was.
Those were HUMANS back there, not commodities.
Slave trade and human transports are very common on the east coast.
Those people were lucky though, they had air holes, many tractor trailor transports don't.
More could've died and from what the reports said, they had been traveling on that transport for at least 3 days.
NOW do you understand why I personally want to see people come here legally??!!
Does NEVER wanting to see that happen to ANYONE STILL make me racist???
I said I wasn't going to post, but someone brought up the greed factor and this has been in my mind for a few days now.
signed, outside looking in
A number of years ago, there was a group that appeared to be sanctioned by the High School that had students recruiting for spring break vacations. It was a pyramid scheme where some students got payment for how many of their classmates they sold vacations to, etc.
The parents put together the money ($800 per if I remember right, an amount that would have bought an excellent hotel at the time) and sent their kids on a chaperoned vacation in Acapulco with nice hotels and pre-paid meals.
When they went to the airport in Wichita, they were not boarded on a commercial flight, but were put on some flea bag charter plane and were taken to Acapulco.
Once in Mexico, the kids (16 to 18 yr old) were dropped off at 2 run down hotels (one of which was the el Girasol) which were substituted for the ones in the brochure. The chaperones split, not to be seen again until the flight home. Instead of the pre-paid meals they got vouchers for about a dollar a day at McDonald's.
No air conditioning in their rooms, some of the toilets didn't work, no phones, etc. They were abandoned in a 1 million population city with nothing and with most of the students unable to communicate in spanish.
A daughter of a friend of mine spent $250.00 getting one of her classmates out of jail in Mexico. This by an american company operating out of Wichita.
Sorry, looking back at my notes it was Cancun, population 450,000. Not Acapulco.
Here's my story. This is why I am against illegal immigration and the crimes which come along with them.
*************************
My stepfather had some friends (young white couple) who went to Mexico on vacation. They went with their 2 year old son. Somehow, while they were shopping their son came up missing. I guess they turned their back on him for a second. They went to the authorities. The authorities immediately took them to the US border and told them to check every car coming through for their son. They also told them when they found him to motion to the cops, but do not say anything to anyone.
When they found their son, they realised why. You see, Mexican drug smugglers like to kidnap babies to help get their drugs across the border. They kill them, stuff them with the drugs and then put them in car seats. Then they have a white person (with proper documents) drive the car across the border pretending to be their parent. They always try to tell the border patrol that they are "sleeping". To do this, they have to have freshly killed babies.
Evidently, this trend has progressed to older children. You see, they can get more drugs in a two year old.
********************************
Have you ever noticed the number of missing 2 year old children along the border (US side?). I will never vacation in Mexico after hearing this story. Now, I know that all illegal immigrants are not doing this and in fact it takes a white person to make this drug smuggling operation work. However, I have a very bad attitude towards drugs and illegal immigrant drug smugglers.
Many illegals come here to work, but some do come here to smuggle drugs and are willing to murder others to do it. The only way I know to shut down the drug and human trafficing is to stop it all. This is why I am so passionate about the cause. Maybe I do get carried away sometimes, but it is hard for me to forgive what these people did to this little boy. I know this is what the Bible tells me to do, but I have not yet found the courage to forgive.
I'd also like to tell every dope smokin, cocain snorting American this story. Maybe they should think about these kids while they are getting high. Perhaps that's how that drug got into their hands?
Too bad your lovely dead baby story is FALSE....
http://www.snopes.com/horrors
/drugs/deadbaby.asp
What a squishy load!
Man! Have you ever been through customs coming back through? Yeah, sure. Customs agents can't detect a dead 2 year old baby (since so many are missing!!!) stuffed with cocaine, because there is a white person with documents in the front seat.
This story is the biggest crock I have ever heard in my whole life.
If this is the basis of why you don't like mexicans, then it is definitely time for a reality check.
“Is being an idiot like being high all the time?” - Janeane Garofalo
They kill them, stuff them with the drugs and then put them in car seats. Then they have a white person (with proper documents) drive the car across the border pretending to be their parent. They always try to tell the border patrol that they are "sleeping". To do this, they have to have freshly killed babies.
>>>>
Sounds really awful, ... maybe too awful,
Do you have any documentation of this actually happening.
Im sure drug smugglers would try it if it would work, but .. does it actually happen?
My point about racist attitudes was the idea that assuming all hispanics are illegals ... that is racist.
Being concerned - or against - illegal immigration, is another issue entirely.
I understand they are using Arkinsaw hillbillies now, the ones about the size of Hoss Cartwright because they can get in so much more cocaine.
snicker snicker....
Ok, I just read your urban tales website. I am calling my step-dad right now. He told me this story about 3 years ago, and if I find out it is BS or was some kind of a joke, he is going to get a piece of my mind. This is not something to joke about, and I have been pretty muchly traumatized by it ever since I heard it. If it was BS, I will gladly come back and apologize. I really respected this man...
if we have no limits to the amount of people we let come to our country and we support them all with Government programs and feed them and educate them all what is left for those who were born here and gave their lives so that we could have the freedom and life that we live now.
I assure you that a nation with such a population could not live as we do now.
I am very much for immigration, and i think we indeed should share our good fortune, however I am also part Chipawa, and i am also very pissed that you lilly livered goat milkers stole this land from us,it belonged to us before the spanish came and made mexicans.
And now you want to give it back to the spanish after you have painted the land with our blood and burned our homes.
Do not let this terrible price we have paid be for nothing, honor us by being proud of your land, be brave and defend it with all cost.
Your fathers have worked hard and lost many men to give you this land, they did not do this so you could blend it with other nations and lose the heritage that makes America stand tall
Kudos for you brave warrior!! well said
good going James now you got the Indians on the war path
Well, here it is. Do with it what you want. He says this is not gossip, and not a joke. This is fact! After having a long discussion with him over this (with tissues in hand), I believe him.
He explained this happened over 10 years ago, when Mexicans and Americans could cross the border either way on a simple day pass. The child was taken in Juarez, Mexico and crossed the border at El Paso, Texas. He did correct me by saying that it was not a white person driving the car. The man was arrested and taken into custody for this crime.
He says he could tell you a few more hair raising stories about his life on the border of Arizona. I will not bother to pass anymore on, as it will only bring more personal insults on me. Everyone will believe what they want, and there is nothing I can do about that. I have tried to explain myself, only to be insulted and called more names.
was it a dirty rotten illegal immigrant driveing the car????
I understand they have no worries about law
Gosh, Mother of 2, why not pack up on a long weekend and go to an american bordertown, Laredo, El Paso, Del Rio, Calixico, etc and see how the people there feel about it.
If you want to keep up with the big news about all of today's border issues, etc you can see the newspapers online. ie., Laredo Morning Times, etc.
What you will see are articles about boy scouts and housing changes; pretty mundane stuff and no real terrorism and baby snatching stories.
Mother of 2 , please, please don't just say this is your story and you're stuck with it. I know you have gotten beaten up a bit on the blog, but it might be important to you to research this to see how incorrect it is.
If this is your basis of evaluating hispanics, please don't let an untrue "urban legend" demonize these people in your mind.
I've been crossing the mexican border at crossings since 1970 and there has been no time that someone could get past customs with a dead baby in the back seat, let alone cocaine. Maybe into Mexico, but not out, and what would be the point of that?
Don't use this bogus story lead you to be distrustful of hispanics.
You know it really is what they used to do to the blacks in the 20's, ie., tell stories that they would steal children. It was just made up stories to justify unfounded fears and racism.
Dig deeper and get the true answer. Maybe it will change your opinions.
From another blog thread:
Ark City LOVES to tell their stories, from the millions of dollars the museum brings in, to people smuggling cocaine in shipping crates into their storefronts, to Ark City used to be a riverboat gambling town.
A whole lot of times the "stories" wind up in budgets, bond issues and the like. It sure would be nice if people would learn the difference between hype and fact.
If you've lived in Ark City long enough though, you can generally tell reality from horsefeathers.
A fast way to tell is when the story starts changing when it is scrutinized. When that happens regard it all as horsefeathers. The deeper you look, the more feathers you get.
I was wondering if anybody could help me out. I am going to be moving into the area this summer to work at GE. I was wondering if you could give me a website I could check out with some apartments that you guys would recommend either in Arkansas City or Winfield. Thanks Mark
"I am also part Chipawa, and... it (the land) belonged to us before the spanish came and made us mexicans."
The Chippewas (Objibwa) were around Lake Superior and I don't think that ever was Mexico.
Kansas was part of the Louisiana Purchase from the French.
It seems the source of the names Kansas and Arkansas are from the Objibwa "Aakaans" and "Aakaanzhish".
Kansas tribe = (called themselves) Kaw
Arkansas tribe = Quapaw.
If you want to know what these words mean in Objibwa go to wikipedia and enter Objibwa.
Arkansas means little Kansas and Kansas means, well,... go look it up.
Very interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ojibwa
You know it really is what they used to do to the blacks in the 20's, ie., tell stories that they would steal children. It was just made up stories to justify unfounded fears and racism.
>>>
Too true.
which was my point in this whole thing.
I realized though, that i don't personally know any immigrants from Mexico here in Ark City - legal or not -
Im not even sure how to change that. I do know a couple people of hispanic descent, but they have been here for 3-4 generations.
How could we get Hispanic immigrants more integrated into our society ?
The legal ones at least :)
j
"I was wondering if anybody could help me out. I am going to be moving into the area this summer to work at GE. I was wondering if you could give me a website I could check out with some apartments that you guys would recommend either in Arkansas City or Winfield. Thanks Mark"
Hey Mark- I am not sure that there are websites for any apartment complexes. The Traveler has classifieds and you can sometimes look on the individual Realtors sites. That might be a good option to call a real estate agency and tell them what you are looking for in terms a of a rental.
Here are a few of the local places:
Dorothy Rush
United Agency
Century 21
If anyone else can think of some others can you please post them for Mark.
if we have no limits to the amount of people we let come to our country and we support them all with Government programs and feed them and educate them >>>>>>>
"ALL" is such a big word..
i would agree that illegals should not get any benefits at all.
but we still have lots of people who were born here living off welfare when they could be working.
good going James now you got the Indians on the war path
>>>
yea always happy to be of service :)
He explained this happened over 10 years ago, when Mexicans and Americans could cross the border either way on a simple day pass.
>>>
Last time I went to Mexico was 1987, no day pass then.
Americans could go to mexico with a tourist pass which was - is - easy to get. actually you had to have it to get back into the u.s.,
mexicans couldn't
>
The child was taken in Juarez, Mexico and crossed the border at El Paso, Texas. He did correct me by saying that it was not a white person driving the car. The man was arrested and taken into custody for this crime.
>>>
i can imagine it happened once .. there are always horror stories.
how about the woman in kansas city who cut out the baby from a pregnant woman and tried to pass it of as her own?
does that make all white women bad ?
>>>>>>
Everyone will believe what they want, and there is nothing I can do about that. I have tried to explain myself, only to be insulted and called more names.
>>
People will call you on stuff on this blog..
people do tend to believe what they want to believe ... maybe even you too ?
Ark City LOVES to tell their stories, from the millions of dollars the museum brings in, to people smuggling cocaine in shipping crates into their storefronts, to Ark City used to be a riverboat gambling town.
>>>>>>>>>>>
i wonder if there would be enough interest to start a story telling club... seriously ?
or maybe not call it a "club"
but some kind of story telling group
in the early 1900s there were several "joints" downtown in AC.
some wanted to shut em down, others felt it would hurt the downtown if they closed them.
some also ran houses of ill repute upstairs...
some women even paid their fines in advance..
there are stories about this in the traveler, late 1890's early 1900's.
Ummm.. Roll up the windows and lock the doors.. Put it in the trunk. Come on- Stop making that about race.. It shouldn't even be. I think as mature adults we all know that people steal, Reguardless of race/gender. It happens... I'm a photographer and wouldn't care what that person thought- I would put my stuff in the trunk and go in. You can't stop people from thinking what they want about you.
A really good online resource for early Cowley County historical stuff can be found at:
http://www.ausbcomp.com/~bbott/
Bill Botorff has a web page of old Ark City Traveler, Ark City Republican and Winfield Courier papers, as well as maybe a thousand turn of the century (and before) photographs of Ark City and Winfield.
Two of the most interesting things: A society report of General George Custer and how he met with the social butterflies in Ark City and how nicely the party went. It said his troops were then going to Montana to track down some Indians. (Argghhhh! How did that turn out?)
The house of ill repute and the controversy thereof in the operations above the present day Bryant Hardware. Apparently the sheriff would just go by on a regular basis and collect the fines, like a bill.
"Here are a few of the local places:"
Dorothy Rush 620.442.7851
United Agency 620.442.0400
Century 21 620.442.4700
(since you're from out of town, I thought phone numbers....)
Welcome to town.
We're not all as grumpy as we seem, just like heated discussions. ;)
Here is how mexico trats their illegal immigrigrants
http://news.yahoo.com/page/mexico_immigrants
Since we are telling personal stories, here is mine:
Two or three years ago, my brother was moving from one part of tijuana to another. He is white, but living in Tijuana with his mexican wife, and travelling back and forth to San Diego every day to work construction. (Okay, go to snopes and see if it's true that there are still white people working construction in San Diego! I know it's hard to believe, but I assure you it's true!)
Anyway, we (my two brothers and I) went to Mexico to help him move. There was no visitors pass, no day pass to get back into america, NOTHING! On the way back through the border into the US, we were hauling an open top trailer filled with dirt. A border agent made us pull over to the side and asked us what the dirt was for. We told him it was for my brother's construction job. He then asked if it was dirt from Mexico, or dirt from America. We didn't know which would be the right answer to get us through, so I asked him "which is better?" To my disbelief he told us that dirt from Mexico was not allowed into the US because of contaminants in the mexican soil. So I said "It's American dirt!" He let us right through. REAL tough standards they have at the border when the ol' jedi mind trick can get you through, huh!
Please tell more.
Where was the crossing?
Did Border guard ask for ID?
Did you have U.S. photo ID drivers card?
Was it Mexican dirt? (be honest, you may be a criminal :) )
The outcome would probably be different if You were Mexican.
I'm hoping you didn't have dead babies filled with cocaine in the dirt.
Sounds like you were an illegal alien in Mexico. Did they murder or kidnap you?
Reminds me of a Slim Pickens film (maybe Strangelove) where he has a pickup that is filled with trash and junk and he is crossing the border with it.
The border inspector asks what is in the pickup, and he says "construction material".
We didn't know where the dirt came from, because the construction worker brother wasn't in the car with us. And yes, the dirt was covering 20 bricks of heroin. Do you have any idea how many dead babies it takes to hold 20 bricks of heroin? Dirt is much easier to come by. (I'm glad you think this is a funny topic!)
I don't think there was ever a time when we were asked for ID.
How can it be illegal, when we went right through a border crossing. They never even stop the cars going into Mexico, and very rarely do they stop any coming out of Mexico.
A co-worker (and recovering drug addict) once told me about her experiences in transporting weed & cocain across the border. She and her boyfriend were cattle haulers, and they would go to Mexico to purchase their "stash". They would get it across by border by stuffing the drugs in a dead cow. Border Security would not check the dead animal because of the stench.
This stretches the imagination a whole lot.
You came back from Mexico and were stopped by a customs agent, but were not asked to see your driver's license or ID.
You were in a car and someone else down the road in another vehicle had a load of dirt, but you were required to tell the customs agent what it was and where it came from.
You were given the option of saying which answer and the customs agent prompted you which answer was better.
Another person is crossing the border, bringing a dead and stinking carcass filled with drugs and the customs agents don't inspect it because it stinks too bad.
Warning, Danger Will Robinson #####!!
I think the Bull#### detector is going off!!!!
I might buy it if I hadn't gone through customs myself.
I've gone through customs 15 times and my personal experience is that they would not let me bring back fruit or vegetables because of quarantines and I had to declare every item I had brought back on a customs form and supply ID.
Sometimes they would take the forms and glance at them after checking my name, and sometimes they would inspect further, but they would always check ID and do an initial inspection. If I had anything on the customs list, it would be inspected. A stinking animal carcass? No way.
Maybe these people were thinking of the Texas border instead of the Mexico border. Are you sure of the map location? It is the Rio Grande (Rio Bravo), not the Red River.
Otherwise you better call Lou Dobbs. He could do an investigative reporting breakthrough and break this news wide open!!!!!
Ark City loves to tell their stories.
In re-reading I see the dirt was in the open top trailer. But still, preposterous story.
But still, preposterous story.
Yea, My BS-ometer was off the scale.
Maybe we could work in some dead puppies.
James said:
"I dont want to call anyone that word (racist). But when you go blaming problems on a certain race of people - i don't know what else you can call it."
Since when are illegal aliens a certain race of people?
I REALLY DON'T GIVE A FLYING, FUDGE-PACKING FEATHERDUSTER WHAT YOU BELIEVE! I WAS THERE AND YOU WERE NOT. THE AGENT GAVE US THE ANSWER!!!! I LATER FOUND OUT THAT THE DIRT WAS FROM CALI, SO WE DIDN'T CONTIMINATE AMERICA OR ANYTHING.
MAYBE THEY DID CHECK THE DRIVER'S ID, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER THEM DOING IT. I DO REMEMBER THE REST PERFECTLY THOUGH. MY BROTHER'S AND I STILL LAUGH ABOUT HOW DUMB THE AGENT WAS TO GIVE US THE RIGHT ANSWER.
Yeah, yelling always helps as does nasty language. That helps convince people, especially when reason fails.
Since when are illegal aliens a certain race of people?
Since ONE poster referred to them as Hispanics.
He, or She, only attacked hispanics in their comments about immigrants (and didnt differentiate between legal and illegal.)
My comments were aimed at just one poster who seemed to be targeting hispanics ... not at others who were talking about illegals ..
huge difference
I told you a first hand account of the story, and was called a liar! So who cares what those people believe. I never used any nasty language though. They must be LYING!
And reason didn't fail, because I wasn't "reasoning" with anyone...I was telling about something which only I can know about, because I was the only one (in this discussion) who was there.
It does, however, stand to "reason" that since it doesn't support your argument about how secure our border is, then it must be BS, RIGHT?! Some of you people are just too dumb to understand reason. You open borders people are daft.
ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL!!!!
They must be under the belief that someone is really watching the border down there and there is no possible way any type of illegal substance or illegal alien could possibly EVER get into the US without someone catching them!!! OMG!
sg, you can't have it both ways, bud.
You didn't do anything to get into Mexico and you are not an illegal alien there, (which by the way is true, as long as you don't stay more than 72 hours). Your driver's license is your ID (according to INM in Mexico) and your driver's license is perfectly valid in Mexico (which is true).
I think you were asked if you showed ID and first you say no and then you get mad and say yes, maybe. The current requirement to enter the U.S. is a valid ID and a few years ago they permitted Border agents to verbally question instead of get paperwork.
What's the problem, dude?
Boy, those Mexicans must be really stupid to swim the Rio Bravo del Norte or to hide out in the desert or ride in 18 wheelers as cargo when all they ever needed to do was just get in their cars and drive through the regular border crossings because nobody is looking anyway.
I guess they just don't ever get anything right.
I'm guessing with all the illegal aliens we have in this country, they've come in about every way possible don't ya think?
There is MILLIONS of illegal aliens... I mean REASONS to believe they are coming in pretty easily. It's a little hard to dispute those kind of numbers.
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