As of 2006 each man woman and child in the USA owed $35,000 on the Nation debt. (last I checked - which is a stealth tax).
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I really dont understand about "national debt"
I tend to think it is something that exists only on paper and is not a reality.
remember the clinton years.
We had this huge national debt, and it went away.
Of course, clinton took credit, and the republicans said no it was due to Reagan's economic policies that came to fruition during Clinton's term.
(same thing for the Carter years, and even the Eisenhower years, but before my time.)
whichever, but the thing is, it went away.
Now it is back.
When the economy improves it will go away again.
Most likely obama will take credit, and the republicans will say no it was due to Bush or Reagan or maybe Barbara Bush....
Is the national debt just politics ?
it does tend to fluctuate quiet a bit for no apparent reason.
Taxes kind of work that way too.
When the economy is going good there is a surplus so they cut taxes, then when it goes bad they run short and have to raise taxes.
Of course, both sides take credit and blame each other.
Anyone have any thoughts on the relationship between the economy and politics .. you do have to get beyond partisan politics.
Im not republican or democrat. if anything, im a-political.
Both sides are wrong :)
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19 comments:
"When the economy is going good there is a surplus so they cut taxes, then when it goes bad they run short and have to raise taxes."
Locally, when the economy is not good, there are fewer businesses, fewer people and consequently a lower number of people to pay the expenses.
Because of long term bonds and fixed overhead expenses (streetlights, personnel, etc.) the operating expenses do not really change much, good economy or bad.
Fewer people pay all the bills. They each pay more.
I don't know if anyone else thinks so, but I'd like to see this blog stay on the focus of Ark City's future and the mechanisms set in place to improve it.
I'd really like to see an in-depth cross check and breakdown of the actual costs to businesses and to individual property owners for the school bond. There has been raised a difference of costs between what was reported and what was supposedly released by USD 470. I'd like to see a breakdown other than what was in the "press release". An unbiased independent accounting.
Another thing I'd like to see clarified: There was mentioned a 24 million interest on the bond. It is without question that the main foot-soldiers of this are local bankers. What is their tie-in to this, and do they get a windfall?
What about the hike bike? Is the $700,000.00 going to be used for a paved trail on top of the levee or some other use?
I'm also wondering about what, if anything other than a paved path, can be done there. What are the construction issues?
I am also very interested in your previous question about the reality of the worker shortage.
Is Ark City moving forward on a plan to develop new industry and receive revenue from the ones who have effectively received a permanent tax abatement?
There are a lot of very important questions that have a direct bearing on Ark City.
Every single person in Ark City could vote completely one way or completely the other and the national debt or the immigration policy won't change. Sorry, although they are interesting beer and pretzel issues, they are largely irrelevant.
Instead of Clinton vs Limbaugh, Bush vs Carville, McCain vs Coulter, pie in the sky politics which will never change (been going on since Eisenhower, maybe since Washington, who knows?), local politics are real. And productive.
The future of Ark City? People can change that today . It's do-able.
Great post@9:30.
I, too, am interested in the worker shortage and what type of jobs we are speaking.
I and my husband have been looking for jobs in the area and there doesn't seem to be much for people with 4 year college degrees.
I have looked on Monster, Cowley First, and classifieds for both Winfield and Ark City.
There is a giant difference between a shortage of $6.00 - $12.00 an hour jobs and a shortage of higher hourly/salary jobs.
ok ok
ill stay the course :)
There will never be jobs for everyone. If you are highly skilled and trained in a specific field then you must go where that field is. Ark City will never have all of the opportunities. Even Wichita has a limit to its specific trades.
The days of $25/hour jobs in Ark City are pretty much gone. There are a few businesses that gross enough to pay that, but most just can't do it. The types of "industry" or city leaders keep talking about aren't any better. Most anything that comes here will be factory jobs not unlike Rubbermaid, K-Square, or even Creekstone.
Keep in mind, any business that comes to Ark City will be looking for cheap land, tax incentives, cheap labor, and whatever other savings they could get. What other reason would a company look to Ark City for?
Turning it around, $12/hour jobs go a lot further here than they do in most places. A mortgage payment on a home here is less than rent in a big city. People can live much better here, in a nice place, than they could where they could make much more money.
The best we could probably do is a happy medium, if we could get in better paying jobs the cost of housing would go up to match. I could live with that.
Is there anyone who can address the issue of $12.00 /hour jobs? Do these exist in large quantities?
The statement was 300 unfilled jobs. Apparently there may not be high end jobs, what about these?
How about the guy looking for the EE job?
Did you get any responses locally?
I posted about the EE job. We have looked at the GE site (applied there). The rubbermaid site (applied there).
I looked at the Kan-Pak site and didn't see any job listings. I haven't called but do know someone who works there.
Also, I did find a site called Kansasworks.com. It had about 20 job listings of various positions. It looked like 2 city positions were they highest paying.
Here are some information for salary trends for Cowley County. Based on these I would assume that most of these jobs are under $12 an hour.
http://www.cowleyfirst.com/wages.htm
What I am failing to understand is that everyone keeps saying that there are plenty of jobs but we need better housing and more retail to attract people. A $12.00/hr job @40 hours a week for 52 weeks a year is about $25,000 a year before taxes. It would be very hard to purchase a brand new home on that type of salary. It would probably even be difficult to rent a new, nice apartment on that salary.
You can certainly purchase an existing small, older home on that salary but that would be about it.
So, am I missing something here or is the salary of the jobs that are available really not enough to boost the local economy?
One other thing...
According, to the Cowley first site there are about 190 acres of unfilled industrial sites in Goff park and Strother field combined.
Just food for thought. I know the industrial park issue has been brought up many times.
I realize that Strother is in the County but it is interesting....
"...So, am I missing something here or is the salary of the jobs that are available really not enough to boost the local economy?"
nicely written...Gasoline $3.00 gal. etc., etc.
A single person would have to watch every penny in order to make it on that wage.
I think these jobs would help local economy, as these workers would spend what little they had (food, utilities...)
Better stay in school.
Jobs won't boost the economy unless we have people to fill them.
What we need is to make Ark City a more balanced city. More retail, improved housing, better amenities (parks, baseball fields, hiking trails, etc.) Keep what few dollars we have and try to attract new money. Get people to move to Ark City. When we have filled the jobs we have, then industry becomes more important.
There are other kinds of industry. Developing housing would employ many contractors for a great length of time, remodeling, renovating and building new. Retail would keep dollars in town and create fresh jobs at similar pay scales. Attractions would draw people (baseball parks, river development, branded tourism, etc.) and bring fresh money to Ark City.
Politics is what is preventing this now. Ark City would grow naturally if local politics (the people controlling the commission) would let things happen.
2 Points:
First.
"there are about 190 acres of unfilled industrial sites in Goff park and Strother field combined."
Ironically, because the City has depended on others to develop industry for decades, industrial development at Goff and Strother doesn't benefit the City for tax revenues. (with the exception of Creekstone)
Second.
It's probably important to do a reality check on these 6 to 12 dollar jobs.
Where would they be? Does anybody actually know first hand of any businesses or factories that have dozens of jobs open? How about like 50 or a hundred?
The "300 unfilled jobs" story is starting to sound like one of those urban myths. (OK: rural myths, but ghost jobs nevertheless)
Even at low wages, I'll bet if they were posted here, then some of them could be filled.
BTW a quick way of estimating annual is 2070 times hourly.
7 bucks is 14.5 thousand p/a.
If the 300 jobs are such a myth, why is Cowley First along with several of the local employers going to the big job fair for the displaced Tyson workers?
Maybe the local employers gave up advertsing in Ark City because of the hard core unemployables? Maybe they don't advertise farther out because outside of a decent job they have nothing to offer (housing, retail, etc.).
Are local employers beating their heads against the wall? Since people seem to think their jobs are "myths" maybe they are facing negativity as much as anyone else? Since local employers don't pay enough for the people of Ark City maybe they should take their jobs where they are appreciated?
I'm sure they could get better deals elsewhere.
I do think there are jobs out there not sure about 300 but I think they tend to be lower paying and specialized. There seem to be many health care related jobs but they did tend to be lower paying.
I am sure that some of the job listings on the kansasworks site are for muliple positions.
And Rubbermaid, the casino, and kan-pak all have classified ads. The article in the paper said the new casino would employ between 400-500. I am sure some of those will come from Ark City. I have no idea of the pay.
@6:50
In analyzing why the town would be having trouble recruiting people it is only a natural question to look at the pay scale.
You cannot live very well on $14,500 a year even in Ark City. The poverty line for a family of four is 17,000 so most likely these people would be seeking some type of benefits even though they have a full time job.
And I would argue that the poverty line number is ridiculously low.
So, I doubt someone isn't coming here because of the housing and retail. They are not coming here because they are not enough jobs paying a living wage.
There are plenty of shopping opportunities in a 25 mile radius. People in most other parts of the country are used to traveling that far to go places so I doubt that in and of itself that would be a deal breaker.
Why would you relocate somewhere else for a job where you will be making below the poverty line or slightly above? There are those types of jobs everywhere.
Housing can't employ people if they can't afford the housing. We all know that retail jobs are not exactly the best paying.
The point about the 190 acres of industrial space wasn't about the tax revenue.
It was why would you build more industrial sites if you already have 190 empty acres.
AC industries has a vested interested in making sure industries relocate to Goff Industrial Park.
If they have trouble filling the space don't you think the city would, too?
I'm not sure they have difficulty filling the space.
The Strother field space was part of a large WWII airfield that was given back to Ark City and Winfield after the war for use as a public airport. Because Strother has accepted many millions of dollars of federal funds, they are committed to long term federal restrictions.
The land is restricted from sale or uses for anything other than supporting the airport.
It used to be used for agriculture and oil production. Now they have drawings and plans for industrial expansion, but it wasn't acquired for industrial development purposes.
AC Industries with Goff are doing their planning based on what they think will happen and I doubt they feel they have an unreasonable amount of land.
On the other hand, Wichita has industrial parks as do Ponca, Newkirk and Blackwell and those are available too, but they don't benefit Ark City either.
The point is that Ark City has few industrial (economic) supporters because they have approached industrial development with benign neglect. The city has authorized numerous city benefits, ie. industrial development bond sponsorship, city utilities, etc. without requiring the industries to contribute to the tax base.
It is not lack of available land or too much land that is the issue, it is that Ark City through either lack of knowledge or lack of planning has not done industrial development. It should have been fixed 20 years ago. Ark City management has been asleep at the wheel.
I'm the "myth" poster. What the CVB and Cowley First is doing is the right stuff. Good for them.
I don't have any firm knowledge about the jobs one way or another. Are the jobs in the 300 range, less than that, way off? I think if somebody has direct knowledge about the jobs it would be helpful to hear it.
First, find out if they exist, and in what quantity.
I wonder if Ark City is accommodating that range of jobs well. Most other towns have numerous affordable apartments which are the staple for people in that job range. Do hispanics or 21 - 25 yr old adults have any barriers renting houses here?
If anyone has first hand info, that would be helpful too.
It wouldn't take too many of those 300 jobs filled to support additional apartments.
I've heard it said that there isn't anything wrong with Ark City that couldn't be cured by 15 bus loads of new people.
Hmmm..... 300 jobs,... Anybody got a bus?
300 jobs a myth?
I keep hearing CVB and Cowley First. Though the information is posted here almost daily, those in doubt could call.
CVB: 442-0230
Cowley First: 442-3094
Want to solve our problems? Quit doubting and take action.
How do we go about getting more apartments built and more homes? Is there someone in town that does that or do we have to go out of town. Can the city help or is that strictly business? What do we do?
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