Just got back from a weekend in Oklahoma City. I had never spent any time there before, but just a weekend there left me impressed.
I definitely want to go back. The rain all day Saturday pretty much prevented any exploring, so I managed a little on Sunday, but that was enough.
I went for a story telling festival. That was really cool. I would like to see us have one here.
Story telling is becoming a popular art form once again.
It's kind of like what Buckskin Joe does.
There were also some great eating establishments.
Also they have made their little canal into a nice walkway with coffee shops, night clubs and trendy little eating places, and such along the way. Very nice trail, and they even have boat rides on it.
Well it is a larger city, and they are always nice to visit. The thing I liked best was that it didn't "feel like" a big city. It felt kind of like a really really big small town, which was nice.
People were nice and friendly, helpful even, and it was fairly easy to get around.
I did a little checking and found out it is not as old as Arkansas City. It was started after the landrush as a center for keeping law and order.
Found a great blog on the city ..
http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/
Made me think a lot about what could be done here.
Visionaries built Oklahoma City into what it is today.
What will visionaries do here ?
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Thanks James,
I believe your blog is helping. Getting people to at least think..."maybe we can..."
Marketing to people in CA and FL?
The low cost of living is a great marketing point for Ark City. How about marketing to people who are caught up in the horrendous real estate market of the coasts.
I go on the city data forums a lot and there are tons of people in these areas who are tired of the congestion and high cost of living.
How could we market the town to those types of people? If you haven't looked at the brochure that Cowley First did for Cowley County you really should. They did an excellent job and make Arkansas City and the surrounding areas sound like a great place to live.
If we had all of (or even some) of the ideas mentioned it would make the town even more marketable.
If you compare Ark City to LA or NYC, there is a much lower cost of living in AC.
If you compare it to most non-tourist cities in the south, you find that it is pretty expensive in AC, particularly groceries, services and taxes.
If might be a good exercise to compare direct costs between AC and OKC, particularly real estate prices, taxes and city service costs. You need to compare apples to apples considering specific house sizes and age, not just average prices, because OKC has a higher standard of housing than AC.
because OKC has a higher standard of housing than AC.
Yea i didnt mean to compare the two cities in the sense of Arkansas City being like Oklahoma City.
It was just an example.
We can do stuff, just like they do stuff, but obviously on a different scale.
OK city has a lot going for it though. I wouldn't mind living there.
but what can we learn from OKC ?
"but what can we learn from OKC ?"
(or Dallas, Tulsa, Omaha, etc. or maybe even Enid or Ponca, too)
A lot.
Going there, hanging out, talking with the locals, looking around (without dropping off a resume ;) BTW), is something that EVERYONE should do.
With many of the issues in Ark City, it's easy to get too close to the forest to see the trees.
Ark City's growth involves people from other places. It's not fair to compare the housing, opportunities and shopping between Ark City and Oklahoma City... for sure.
BUT, ya gotta know, when someone looks to move to Ark City with an alternate option of moving to other places, that is exactly what they do before they decide.
It's great to have all of these ideas, but they take time to implement. My concern is that there have been other great ideas in the past and they have either been forgotten or stopped somewhere along the line as opinions change, or new representation is elected. (City, County, State...)
What can be done to make certain that an idea or project can be followed through to the end?
"What can be done to make certain that an idea or project can be followed through to the end?"
Simple! Our City Commission should know their role, they are policy makers. They should allow the people in place do the job they were hired to do. It is not their job to save Bryant Hardware. They should let local developers and others persue ideas to promote growth. Will the commission stop Quiznos from coming here because it might hurt Grinder Man or Subway? Same thing as Retail development plan just differant scale.
I have scene several projects get hammered by the commission because a few did not like it. Or voted based upon the loudest complainers. We seem to be running a race with no clear finish line. The city seams to have no goals, no vision and no plan. Other than that I'm tired of trying and I give up!
That's why Ark City (Commission and management)needs a plan.
Otherwise all of this is just baloney, ie. the color or flavor of the week.
1. Economic
2. Retail
3. Housing
It is da#ned well time after all this input that they should have started on SOMETHING.
Where is the plan?
"Other than that I'm tired of trying and I give up!"
Too bad. Hang in there.
If it really does take time to accomplish anything, I'm assuming they mean a number of years, I can see the difficulty in the commission trying to accomplish anything.
Every 2 years there is a new election and up to 3 of the commissioners are replaced.
A good example is the Lowe's deal. I've heard several commissioners and ex-commissioners say it had been in the works for several years. How many different commissioners worked on it? If it hadn't been for the change in the last election would it have gone through?
If we do something new, what is to prevent the commissioners in the election next year to stop it and start a whole new line?
Is it the people we elect, or do they change after the election? Do we really know how these candidates feel about issues before we vote on them? Do we know if these candidates even know the issues? The commissioners need a good hard look now, and next year's candidates need an even harder look.
The city seams to have no goals, no vision and no plan. Other than that I'm tired of trying and I give up!
>>>>>
That's the problem
people give up when it gets hard.
"the city" is not going to do it... its up to the people to make things happen
the city can make it easier or harder, but it is us that has to do "it"
some people with vision can make things happen.
i keep looking for them :)
but it also takes some ... intestinal fortitude :)
If it hadn't been for the change in the last election would it have gone through?
>>>
it would have .. all three of the ones who were on the commission last year but not this year, spoke for it at the hearing ...
last year's commission would have passed it 5-0.
>>>>>>>>
If we do something new, what is to prevent the commissioners in the election next year to stop it and start a whole new line?
>>>
Nothing is to stop them
that is always the risk
which is why i keep saying the people have to do it.
meaningful change cannot happen through the city commission ... their job is just to make it easier, not to actually do it..
>>>>>>>>>>>
I The commissioners need a good hard look now, and next year's candidates need an even harder look.
>
THIS is why people need to go to the meetings.
some more are showing up, but there needs to be more.
it still amazes me that people thought the vote last december was on lowe's ...
take part in your city's business.
"That's the problem
people give up when it gets hard."
Let me tell you my story I posted the I give up statement, but I also started from scratch three small businesses in Ark City. each grew to be very prosperous. Each were sold to local people that have continued to make a living. One operation was started with $9000 and grew to be valued at over a half a million within a couple of years. I had plans that I had been working on for the past several years to start two more small operations. The only hitch was I knew of the possible lowes comming to our town and would have made my new ventures profitable. With one fell swope to save another they killed future growth and opertunity. There comes a certain point in your life you get tired of the stress to your family and veiw things as more important. I have the will power and ability to provide growth in this community but I'am tired of the years of pain and suffering it takes to start new ventures when you have to deal with a commission that has no understanding of how to make growth happen. I have never asked for anything from the commission but I have watched the current commission strip away any outsiders or local investors will to reinvest in this area.
""the city" is not going to do it... its up to the people to make things happen"
Ark City needs to stop the us vs. them, the "people" or the "city".
The Ark City "city" is governed by elected citizen commissioners. They are there to do the bidding of the "people" of Ark City.
If any commissoners think that they have a higher calling, more intelligence, are on a quest to save Ark City from themselves, or think they can cater to their own interests, they need to get over it. They are elected local municipal representatives and better pay attention to it.
The "city" and the people are the same. The only way anything significant can be done is if the city permits it.
People can do a bake sale. Not big enough to turn Ark City around. Needs more.
"If any commissoners think that they have a higher calling, more intelligence, are on a quest to save Ark City from themselves, or think they can cater to their own interests, they need to get over it. They are elected local municipal representatives and better pay attention to it."
Are we talking about the same commissioners who ignored petitions and voices at a public hearing?
The same commissioners that protected us from the "fat cats from Kansas City" by refusing a shopping center with a Lowe's that would have ruined downtown business (Sparks, Graves, Foster's, Gambino's, Jan's Sport Shack, etc...).
Let's face it, the commissioners not only do not have to do what the people want, they are pretty much set on not letting us have it. Whether it is for personal reasons or representing a very minute faction, these commissioners don't care what we want.
man i had this really cool response, and it got deleted somehow.
maybe its a conspiracy.
I agree that the city and the people are one and the same, but i still think you guys are thinking too small.
It isnt up to the city.
Its up to me and you.
ALL of the commissioners said they would not try to stop a lowes if lowes came on its own .. so, at least we have that.
A lot of it is attitude as well.
I am still challenging people to become visionaries. To dream. To make things happen.
The naysayers will always say it cant be done.
I say it can.
We put on a pretty good little concert last fall. The city helped but the city didnt make it happen.
It was the work of a few dedicated people that made it happen, as well as the donations of time, money and equipment by many people.
BUT .. what if i had just given up when i couldnt get electricity and everyone told me I couldnt, even up to 3 weeks before the show.
(Here is a secret, the electricity issue was not solved until 3 days before the show, and i still didnt know if it would really work until the band cranked it up.)
The show is going to be bigger and better this coming october.
Im gonna need lots of money and more people.
You are coming arent you ?
Anyone want to be on my committee ?
its about time to get it started.
Im thinking of a whole weekend festival, friday night through sunday afternoon.
BUT the thing is.
It isnt up to the city.
Not meaning to offend anyone at city hall or any commissioners, but I dont plan to ask their permission to do anything :)
You must look beyond the limits of your own imagination, and find a quest that suits you well,
to dwell on wish's that others have cast aside will join your dreams with despair.
I gain no wealth from setting my ideas adrift upon your thoughts.
you will not find your heart contient until you have opened your mind and left traditionalism behind you in the dust.
If you seek truth in your city and compell it to succeed you must polish the tarnish from its past and put a rest to the evil that is contained within its house!
YES !
eloquent even :)
"Whether it is for personal reasons or representing a very minute faction, these commissioners don't care what we want."
THAT is the attitude that needs to be changed. Not the poster, but the attitude.
It's something I've noticed over many years in Ark City, and it is really hard to explain, but it certainly is there and certainly is something.
It seems that when people get into a position of control in the area, it goes to their heads and they do whatever they can to obstruct or ignore others. Not necessarily to obstruct progress or whatever, just to be difficult.
There is a long history of commissions stonewalling public opinion and wishes, and since it has extended through multiple commissions, it can't be pinned on specific people, but it has to change.
I've seen it in clubs, commissions, even people in charge of the pool (Winfield, not AC). Maybe it is local color, but it doesn't help anything.
It reminds me of a movie where Chevy Chase offers $50.00 to everybody that does something "community spirited" or something "progressive" or "friendly" in front of a potential homebuyer (in order to sell his house).
The town completely changes and starts seeming like a much nicer friendlier and progressive place.
Maybe that would cost the city money to do, but it wouldn't cost more than a hiking trail and might do so much more good.
You know, like smiling and counting back change when people pay for goods, actually listening to people from the public without rolling their eyes (at commission meetings), etc. Might be worth $50. Think about it.
If we started it then Ark City might be more like OKC after all.
"ALL of the commissioners said they would not try to stop a lowes if lowes came on its own .. so, at least we have that."
You're right. They wanted to stop the shopping center. Prevent the other things that could have been provided and that we needed much worse than the Lowe's.
People asked for more retail from Vision 20/20 and that survey the city sent out. Then the commission killed the development because it was a bad deal. Then gave away land and a 95% tax rebate to the new meat market.
They decided what we can and can't have. They laughed in our faces at the petitions and public hearing. They were openly hostile to the developers for trying to bring something in on new money.
Believe what you want. I'll look to the facts. They think they are running this town, and they're right. They are making the decisions regardless of what we want.
Good point.
You know, like smiling and counting back change when people pay for goods, actually listening to people from the public w
.>>>>>>>>>>>
Just a couple more observations from Oklahoma City.
* At the the hotel, the gal behind the desk was very nice, took time to draw me a map and suggested a good place to eat.
* Going into the event on Saturday, someone offered to share their umbrella.
* Guy at the convenience store was cool. He was on his cell phone, but still managed to smile, actually say what the amount was and counted back change.
* waitress at breakfast kept bringing coffee and didnt seem to mind at all,
All of this in one day.
Certainly did have an impact on my impression of the city.
hmmmm
"All of this in one day."
The incredibly interesting thing about this is how it seems so noticeable to someone from Ark City.
It's different and a real breath of fresh air, unlike day to day life.
Doesn't matter if it is OKC or Savannah GA, Jacksonville (any of them) or Lake Charles, LA.
What does that tell you?
I know from first hand experience that people who live in these places don't notice it. It is normal.
Yet Ark Citians always say that they have such midwestern friendliness.
I just don't get it.
If we want to change attitudes, this is one of the first to work on.
If we want to change attitudes, this is one of the first to work on.
>>
Good point
now that you mention it, it is kinda strange to even notice such things.
Or to think they were unusual.
THough there are some exceptions here. :)
j
It's a shame Smyer's closed. Maybe the most important thing Ark City needs is a travel agency.
Everyone needs to get out more, and not to Wichita.
Isn't the CVB a kind of a travel agency?
OK, I need to book 3 days in Cleveland at the Stouffer's with a rental car at the hotel and subway/metro hotel to airport and return transfers.
Should I call the Convention and Visitors Bureau?
Need to get out more.
Would there be enough interest or demand for a travel agency also a possible cab company?
Basically we are looking into the possibility of opening a cab service. We have heard that there was one once before and am curious as to why its no longer around.
Another idea was a travel agency, but not sure how well it would be here.
We are trying to come up with ideas that might actually work and looking to implement at least one of the ideas within a 2 year time frame.
I think how viable would either be is what I am looking to find out.
Last, but not least would be a health food store. Might be easier for us financially to go with a travel agency or cab service though.
Any thoughts?
outsider looking in
Every one of those businesses would probably fly. I think each would be the only in the county.
Advertise properly, determine how to approach the right customers at the right time, and each one could be a winner.
I would use your cab service if you offered is late at night so that I could go out without having to worry about a designated driver.
In fact, I have thought about this before. You could do a loop from O'Kelly's, red zone, state line, and anything in between.
I would bet those establishments might even be willing to pay a monthly service if they thought they would sell more alcohol to people who longer have to worry about driving home.
I would cover everything in plastic and get a good power washer:)
Get yourself a 15 passenger van and run it on biodiesel...that way you wouldn't get ate up in gas costs.
Would be even cooler is if you could get one of those trolley/bus deals... that would be really neat.
I would run that in the daytime too and do a loop from Wal-mart to the bridge. People could pick it up at various points and pay a couple of bucks to ride.
BTW, I would ride it all the time... if I had that kind of opportunity.
Here is a link to a used Trolley place. You can get one for $35,000 not exactly cheap but that is a lot cheaper than the start up costs of other businesses.
Of course, there would be other costs involved but it would be really cool.
http://www.trolleybrokers.com/vehicle_page.php?id=235&t
ype=Trolley&condition=used
Winfield has a trolley that they only use for special occaisions, parades and stuff. I've heard they would like to get rid of it... cheap.
Cool! Sounds like it could be easy to do then... if they are willing to get rid of it cheap enough.
Nobody in Ark City travels. That's why Smyer's closed.
It is common for people to have lived in town for all of their lives and to have never been to Tulsa, KC or OKC.
I know 70 year old Ark Citians who have never had lobster, guacamole or bagels or have seen the mountains, desert or oceans.
I know 45 year old Ark Citians who have never ridden on a plane.
There is nothing really wrong with living your whole life's experiences in Ark City and Winfield with some side trips to Wichita (which is just a big Ark City), but it is so mind numbingly boring.
My prescription to everyone: Go take a nice vacation somewhere at least 300 miles away. Go to Mexico. Especially those who are all grumpy about immigration.
Everyone else: go anywhere. San Diego, NY, Disney World.
If you can't do that, do like James did. Go to OKC and see Bricktown; go eat at Toby Keith's restaurant.
Or Tulsa and see the OK Aquarium. Or Stillwater and eat at the world famous "Eskimo Joe's". You can drive it in a morning, stay the day and come back that evening. Or stay the night. Or weekend. Too easy. A whole lot of fun for not much money.
Or, hell, just go to the Stagecoach Barbeque in Newkirk, but get out and see new things.
It will relax you, open your minds and you will come back with new ideas from other places. You will find out how nice people really are.
I took my grandma to see the pyramids when she was 80. She talked about it for the rest of her life. She loved it. You will too.
I understand the point about getting out more and seeing other parts of the world but I also know people in Harlem who have never been to the West Village. Or people in the Bronx who have never been to Manhattan.
My parents on the other hand lived in Ark City almost all of their lives and have been to Switzerland, Spain, Morroco, France, Mexico, Greece, many other countries, and many places in the United States.
My grandparents have been to China, Europe and many other locations, too.
By the time I had reached high school I had traveled the entire country from coast to coast.
I think it pretty unfair to your fellow citizens to assume that they don't get out enough and that is what ills the town and that they just need to broaden their horizons.
I imagine that Smyer's closed for a variety of reasons but not because people in Ark City don't travel. The advent of the internet had a lot to do with it... if you are going to open a travel agency these days then you need to have a very specific niche.
I imagine the issues have more to do with what was stated in a previous post. A poster stated that not very many people came out to help clean up Veteran's Lake and even the people using it didn't help.
You cannot wait for someone else whether it be the city commission or the local community group to make the town better. You have to take action yourself. If you don't know how then ask someone and if you don't have a good idea then come up with one.
I spent 5 minutes writing an e-mail and I think something pretty great for the town of Ark City is going to come out of that 5 minutes.
I posted about the main street association and I got 1 response...
"I imagine that Smyer's closed for a variety of reasons but not because people in Ark City don't travel."
Yep. I'll bet that is exactly the reason. They closed before most in AC had internet and before internet travel agencies were popular.
You'd have to ask them, but I'd bet that if a lot of people in Ark City traveled and used them for booking travel, they would be still be here. Maybe under a new owner, but still here.
"I think it pretty unfair to your fellow citizens to assume that they don't get out enough and that is what ills the town and that they just need to broaden their horizons."
Yep. Unfair, but true.
There are a bunch of very inexperienced and narrow-minded people in Ark City who are holding the town back.
Any type of education, especially travel, would help that. Some people, though, when they go to new places don't actually learn anything. It just doesn't filter through. :)
"You'd have to ask them, but I'd bet that if a lot of people in Ark City traveled and used them for booking travel, they would be still be here. Maybe under a new owner, but still here."
If people in Ark City didn't travel they NEVER would have had a business. They were here for a good many years. So you are telling me that one day people in Ark City stopped traveling?
I will not dispute that there are people in Ark City who don't travel but those people are everywhere.
You can show me handful of people that don't and I can show you handful of people that do... you can't just make a broad generalization that no one in Ark City travels.
Howzabout some do and some don't but not enough to support a travel agent?
Come on guys, give it break.
All I ever said was people should get out and see new horizons. I'm not being unfair or anything to anybody.
Go have fun and come back invigorated and refreshed with new ideas you can share!
I say blue, what say you?
Alright, I will stop giving you a hard time about it.
I actually completely agree with you and people everywhere should get out and see things.
In fact, I am a firm proponent of people living somewhere other than where they grew up for at least 1 year of their lives. And if you grew up in Kansas moving to Oklahoma doesn't count. It should be a significant move.
Anyway, I guess why it struck a nerve is that there is this stereotype of backwards rural/farm people who just don't get out and see anything else.
Why would anyone want to live here if our own citizens promote that stereotype? It just isn't entirely true.
My grandmother's friend has traveled the world. She even went on an African Safari... she is nearing 90 and still travels.
Anyway, so how is this for an idea?
Promoting Ark City has an artist's community. Artists are known to revitalize areas. We have plenty of buildings that could be turned into artist's lofts. If we had some type of subsidized rent or someway to promote the town to get artists to move here that would be great.
We already have Prairie Fest, which is includes an art show.
Promoting Ark City has an artist's community. Artists are known to revitalize areas. We have plenty of buildings that could be turned into artist's lofts. If we had some type of subsidized rent or someway to promote the town to get artists to move here that would be great.
\
>>>>>>>>>>
That would be great.
Ive lived in several small towns in Arkansas, Tennessee, South Carolina and Texas ..
I really think there are more quality artists here - both visual an musical - than there are in most small towns.
There is a guy in Winfield. Dallas Jordan, no relation, who has started an artists group.
Several people from Ark City involved already.
I know lots of people here in AC that travel. Ive been a bit surprised at how many there are.
We started that Traveling Traveler thing, and we have gotten them from all over the world.
I tend to think most people here have traveled some and are not all that backward.
You should try living in a small town in Arkansas sometime. Talk about backward rednecks !
I do have almost nothing good to say about Arkansas. Its a good place to be from .. a long way from. :)
I was in the small town of Stuttgart Ark., and knew several people who had never been out of the county. or maybe they had been to Little Rock.
But travel is relative. I lived on Hilton Head Island, very cool tourist area with great beaches in S.C. I knew people who had lived there for years and had not been to the beach in years.
OR, who had never been to Charleston, S.C., which is one of the coolest - if not the coolest - city on the East coast.
Im not sure a travel agency would work here with the Internet what it is these days. You really don't need much help with travel anymore. Would be hard for one to make it here.
UNLESS they did local tours, such as trips on the river, hiking, biking, horseback riding , and so forth.
I am pretty sure that my art teacher from the high school received some type of grant to open/have gallery/work space in downtown Newkirk.
It could be easily done... in fact the BOE building would make a great gallery/work space for multiple artists. Or ther might even be space in the Burford/Art center.
Artist communities don't exist without a market to support them. That is also required. Wichita might be close enough to support it if marketed heavily, but it won't happen just on its own.
There is a really unique asset in the area that is completely untapped.
Years ago, there was a world class guitar factory at Strother Field that made Mossman guitars. The last one I saw on ebay was selling for $4,500.00. After the factory burned down, many of the employees stayed in the area. Surprisingly, there are many "luthiers" in the area who can take a pile of properly seasoned wood and make a quality musical instrument from it.
Why doesn't someone put together a few million in seed money, hire these people and restart the factory? Quality american made guitars are very hot right now. It might make a lot of money.
The guitar idea is a good idea. Every once in a while, someone comes up with something that really sounds viable. It is nice to think we could support a niche market like that.
Okay, that was the easy part. How to bring that to fruition. Who will get the ball rolling and where will the investors come from?
This would be so cool. My husband is an engineer and a musician... he would be really into this idea.
I am working on my MBA and teach entrepreneurship if anyone is interested in this idea I would be more than happy to help work on a business plan...
I believe that Cowley First does have some type of funding to help start local businesses..
The guitar idea is good.
Probably would not take millions.
What if someone made like two of them and sold them at Prairiefest?
That person might make a profit with virtually no investment.
That could get it started?
Does anyone know any of these guitar - maker type people ?
There is branding and economy of scale that makes manufacturing much cheaper and more profitable than individually making a one or two off. The amount of time spent handcrafting a single guitar is enormous.
It probably would take a lot of money to hire secretarys, sales and marketing people, and set up molds and forms, buy drill presses and specialized finishing machines, pay insurance, dental plans, etc and operate manufacturing until the brand started paying off. But with money being cheap now...
Check the college in Winfield. Some of them teach.
I'm the one that left the comment about the towns up here in KC. Is there anyone at the Chamber doing any marketing for AC? I know such magazines as Midwest Living have a section each month regarding events in each state in the midwest, listed by state, then city. Under the Kansas section I've seen many different festivals going on, but never have I seen Arkalalah, the eagle watching events at the nature center, the events at the Land Rush museum (the River of Life fest. could be listed too) I no longer live in AC, but would love to see the place become a destination point. Some of these little events could get people to come for the first time, and if they come once, they might come back if they have a good experience. However, if they don't know these things are going on, they won't come at all.
Is there anyone at the Chamber doing any marketing for AC?
Yea connie over at the convention and visotors bureau, at the chamber, does that.
she gets lots of things listed,
but even more would be better.
For information on what and where the city is advertising call Connie at the Chamber of Commerce
442-0230
One huge diffrence between Ark City and OKC is that Oklahoma has igmigration laws which would make the idea of "Little Mexico" fail. After Oklahoma passed the laws the amount of Hispanics dropped dramaticly. I read in the Bartlesville Examiner Enterprise that even the number of hispanics in the schools dropped by huge numbers.
Another diffrence between AC and OKC is that the city government works more efficiently. Their Commissioners work hard to be elected instead of being elected by their cronnies.
Also most other newspapers try hard to print newsworthy stories instead of their own point of views. Plus if they are informed of worthy stories they jump on them instead of getting lame excuses that the Editor is out sick or in a meeting. They way I see it is that the Editor is playing grab butt with the "color of the week"
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