There's been some really good discussion lately on the blog.
I appreciate everyone's interest. There have been some good ideas expressed.
It would be cool to see some action taken.
Does anyone want to start a main street association?
Does anyone want to meet to try to organize and plan some things?
What about approaching the commission with some of these ideas?
I know, now i've gone from preachin' to meddlin' :)
jj
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57 comments:
Is there any truth in the rumor going around town that Medicalodge Post Acute is closing. If true, what a blow to our economy and town.
"Yes, but how do you get there. its a chicken and egg thing.
to get shopping and housing you have to provide the market"
So, my suggestion is not all-encompassing. It just deals with one aspect of it. So here goes:
Seems to me the first step is to find out if these 300 unfilled jobs are legitimate. If they have been advertised locally and unfilled, then take them nationwide. I don't see them on monster or yahoo jobs. There is high unemployment in the rust belt these days. Maybe target that area too. If the pay is too low then maybe that is the problem.
Does the college have work-study scholarships? Would they apply to out of state students? A lot of people would like to have an education, but can't afford it unless they work. Maybe that is a way to be a feeder for local businesses.
New employees need housing.
Make sure the banks will step up to housing if there is a demand.
Approach it all with the idea that it may be a hard sell.
300 new jobs is about 800 people. That is a good start.
Shopping? Simple. Get a plan, get a man, and recruit it.
In today's world it is silly to think that Ark City's retail needs will be met by someone locally starting a business. America is a nation of chain stores/restaurants. Get them in. That is the key to growth.
As long as the city is sitting on their hands worrying about when they can schedule workshops, agendas and discussions about this then absolutely nothing will happen.
Someone could start working on this issue this afternoon.
Is there any truth in the rumor going around town that Medicalodge Post Acute is closing.
They are consolidating with their other facility.
More to come in the paper tonight.
jj
Get a plan, get a man, and recruit it.
It's just an expression.
Could be a woman instead ;)
The city has already taken steps to recruit retail business. We hired the Buxton company to do a survey on Ark City and compare us with chain retailers. They were able to come up with a number of matches, we had what they were looking for in population, drive time and other areas.
This information was going to be used in the Lowe's development helping to bring in up to 6 new retailers. The information was also recently given to the new shopping center where the Crestview Motel used to be. They spent some time trying to fill it from local retailers, but have just started to look outward.
Along with our specific information, the city also got a number of direct contacts for chosen retailers. None of this guarantees they will come, but showing we have what those companies are looking for puts us in a much better position.
Even if all goes well, it sometimes takes up to a year to bring in a new retailer. From getting the retailer and the property owners together through the retailers own various stages.
Some of the specific retail chain contacts included a shoe store, a fabric store, a clothing store, a restaurant, and a couple of others which I can't remember.
With any luck we could see some of those come to town this year.
Patrick McDonald
Quote from Mr. Kuhn in the paper "People were upset that Winfield might get the big box store if we didn't. We can't have that attitude. We all need to work together."
Is he a complete idiot?? If the big box is not in Ark City we will not receive any of the property or sales taxes (used for infrastructure or not). People who do shop wherever it ends up will also frequent other retailers local to the big box. People will also tend to eat at restaurants local to the big box. The city that gets the big box will have more jobs (80?). The contractors near the big box will get a lot more work.
Where does this nut come off saying it doesn't matter where the big box goes? No wonder he voted against it. He has no idea what the impact would have been. Or is he actually working for Winfield?
The fact is that Strother Field is centrally located between the two towns and might have been the better location. As far as jobs there are people of both towns driving back and forth everyday!
The problem with attracting a National or Regional Chain or Franchise is that they are primarily "Growth Machines". They look to develope in areas which have a target population whithin
a specific area. (ex. 30mi radius.) Some of these will not consider areas less than 35-50,000 population.
So if you think you can do with the population of one town what you can do with the two conbined you need to wake up!
The problem at Strother Field is -its Governed by two comissioners from each town (4) with the taxes going to Cowley County.
We can't get anything done anywhere Ark City, Winfield, or Strother Field.
How do you suppose that looks to those outside our area. Especially those we are trying to attract to the area for anything?
I've heard many predictions so here is mine - While all the areas around us are taking a pro-active approach to "growth" - if we continue the present approach - we will see a trickle down effect from their growth - but utimately we will be forced into a re-active "Crisis Management" model
of Government. We might already be there - for those other areas are simply getting interest from would be developers - providing them with options to consider - that isn't what's happening in Cowley County!
I've heard talk about the city giving free (or extrememly cheap) land for business and industry. Is it possible that the city could do the same for home builders? There looks enough empty and unused land in town to be able to work with. Would home building be considered an industry? From what other people say it would fill several bills. More housing, more industry, and more to attract new people. Who could work with the city on something like that?
I've heard talk about the city giving free (or extrememly cheap) land for business and industry. Is it possible that the city could do the same for home builders?
>>>>>>>
There is a such a program. I am not sure exactly how it works, but there is a land bank. This land bank is made up of lots owned by the city.
THey are either free or very cheap if you have a plan to build.
I may not be exactly right about that, but there is something to that effect going on.
Here we go again. Another commissioner that doesn't quite have a grasp:
""If we put in four new stores a year, in seven years, that would be equivalent to the money a big box store might have brought to town," he said, and noted that more money would stay in Arkansas City if businesses are home-grown."
Does that mean IF we can get 28 new stores in the next 7 years they will be able to do a combined $24 Million (?) a year in business? How realistic is this? How could he turn down Lowe's for such an unrealistic dream?
"He said there also needs to be a commitment on the part of the community to shop in Arkansas City."
That has been pushed for years by the chamber and others. It hasn't worked yet, and won't in the future. You can't buy it if they ain't got it. People are going to shop where they want, and that just won't change. A commissioner should not be telling people what to do, but do what the people tell the commissioner to do.
Margolius said there are still developers interested in coming to Arkansas City. He pointed to Walgreens as an example of a big store coming to town without a lot of incentives. He believes more will.
Really, who are the interested developers?
Not a lot of incentives? What were the incentives for Walgreens?
He said that while there are several entities working on development -- such as Cowley First -- none report directly to the City Commission.
Really, would you like everything to go through a commission that listens to ?????????????
He wants appointed boards to be more active in pursuing business for the city, and for the city itself to be more aggressive.
"We should also look at other cities, like Winfield. They have an industrial park," he said.
He noted that Winfield has a park and is giving land to developers. That puts them in a better position to take advantage of opportunities that come along.
Good grief, Winfield ‘is giving land to developers’ and the commission said no to a deal where the developer would generate the money for the infrastructure. Give them the land and they don’t require a TIF.
He said there are also significant housing and labor issues that need to be addressed, along with economic development.
He would like to see a board created that would report directly to the city, and that would actively pursue business while working with other groups in the area who are also recruiting business and industry.
Is there any chance that this man has been too close to big government long enough to believe that a committee is the answer to everything. If it works, take credit, if it doesn’t, say, I didn’t do it. What could be easier.
He said there also needs to be a commitment on the part of the community to shop in Arkansas City.
"People may need to change their shopping habits. They could give businesses in Arkansas City a chance first before going somewhere else to shop," he said.
What evidence does Scott have that people do not try to shop here first, I do, but leave town quite often to get what I cannot pick up here.
Margolius believes it is essential that Arkansas City grow if it is to survive.
"There really is a lot happening. I think people are enthused," he added.
He would also like the city to help start a business incubator that could help people start businesses.
"The city can have a role in that," he said, but added that private citizens will also have to be involved.
He believes the city should focus on getting industrial development, or new industries, and that retail and housing will follow that development.
Margolius believes there are a lot of good things in Arkansas City.
"Sometimes I think people forget how good it really is here," he said of the city.
But he still sees the need for growth and to stop the decline both in population and in buildings and infrastructure.
He voted against the big box store, believing it was not a good deal for the town.
"If we put in four new stores a year, in seven years, that would be equivalent to the money a big box store might have brought to town," he said, and noted that more money would stay in Arkansas City if businesses are home-grown.
“If?” Listen to yourself. If is one big small word. Four businesses a year over seven years would give us what a ‘big box’ would have almost immediately. And at that, the new business would have to have sales of over $1 million a year to make that work. What????
you guys are so blind,,, even the city of arkansas city go's to ponca city to shop for things that can be purchased right here,, and wake the heck up,, when you say that some leader did not want lowes your wrong,, they did not want the deal the developer wanted,, had nothting at all to do with lowes,,so cry about something else the story is over, if you cant see past your nose, keep your words behind it
You are absolutely wrong. The opposition was about it being a Lowes and only about it being a Lowes.
The concern was it would affect Bryant's, Midwest Electric (he even hired a lawyer to do a presentation), Woods among others.
If you believe this nonsense the Commission is trying to pitch about it being only a TIF issue, you obviously didn't pay attention to the meeting where they listened to Bryant's and Midwest and ignored 400 signatures.
Blind? I don't think so.
Lowes is dead but the issue certainly is not.
This whole thing of a volunteer commission or committee to develop Ark City is silliness.
Economic and business development isn't church work. It's not something that lends itself to a few people sitting around a table twice a month after hours. It is impossible to make the contacts and do the business on sporadic volunteer schedules.
It involves proposals, phone calls, meetings, faxes, being available when a developer calls, etc. Can't be done by committee. This is not knitting, macrame or scrapbooking. If it is done properly, it takes a lot of work, all of which is during normal business hours.
The idea to send the job to a committee is a political sidetrack to make everyone think it is being handled when it is not.
It's just a way to co-opt the issue to make it go away. A commission can't actually do anything, just humor the public.
A commission of apologists. Don't need another one of those.
Well if done properly a group or "Committee" of people can research mutiple projects or opportunities on going basis or at the same time. You hire and staff one individual? You can't get the benefit of sharing and diversity of knowledge.
Its interesting how big companies are trending toward "Virtual" offices. I have a friend that works for Boeing in St Louis. He had to transfer from this area when Wichita was sold to Spirit.
Yet he works from his home and does not have an office! He can on occasion go to a facility but most all his work is done on computer at home!
If you follow this trend you'll see that large corporations are
closing and selling buildings and offices in favor of Virtual. Savings goes straight to the bottom line!
The opportunity exists IMHO to pull from multiple sources if directed properly. We have two colleges in both towns and I am wondering if there are retired professionals from all areas of public service, industry and retail
that if given specific projects to research for information even contacts etc. could be managed without an office.
I'd find ways to make it worth their time and provide transportation a place to meet luncheons etc. as required for their projects.
You already have the office equipment at the colleges should it be required - use staff or students.
I am sure that Cowley First and others would want input as well-
but it might require a website with the listing of projects and continual updates.
You put together the right machine - it will spread the work over a diverse group and get results far faster that one appointed individual.
Doesn't matter if the person works all day at home, in an office or from Geuda Springs. Needs to be normal full business hours. And no, that person doesn't need a staff, but he must answer to some management, probably the City Manager.
Having even the most creative people in the world meet for 1 or 2 hours at 7PM every 2 weeks (or month) and pretending they got something accomplished just won't cut it.
A new commission would probably get everyone off the City's back, and they can announce press releases and give themselves awards for being number one in state clubs, like all the other commissions and boards, but don't expect any real progress for Ark City to come out of it.
Everyone seems to forget the reason to have a board or commission is to be the directors of those who get the actual work done, not to micromanage every step along the way or attempt to do the actual work from their planning meetings.
Ark City needs the real work done. There is no reason that the City Commission and City Manager can't administrate it, but if the structure is never started, then nothing at all will happen.
Using the college is a great idea. The development person could use interns from the college and help them get experience for their future careers.
Turning over the job of economic development to an inexperienced college student with no management structure probably wouldn't work. It might be worse than doing nothing at all.
Well I can't recall ever suggesting that it be turned over to a College Student. It only works in the right hands!
But you can't tell me that there isn't someone in retirement
that couldn't pull that project together. I can think of some that would do just fine - would they be interested?
But you make it hard - ask for a lot of money - get one or two projects proposed a year.
Don't bring people together or try to use existing resources -
its just not done in todays world -and we won't allow it!
In the right hands I say they blow your developer away!
"But you can't tell me that there isn't someone in retirement that couldn't pull that project together."
I'm sure there is. Let's find him, hire him and put him on the job. And soon.
It's too important a job to entrust to unaccountable part-time volunteers.
Oh yeah...
If he brings in "one or two projects a year", roll his head down Summit Street and get someone who will work.
There should be 15 deals on the desk at all times some of which and maybe few of which will pan out.
But if you're not constantly working all of them, none of them will happen at all.
Some of the Commissioners talk about getting 4 new businesses a year over the next 7 years, presuming all of them will stay in business. But nobody says how to do this. It's empty words without a plan and a method.
This is a way to do it.
I don't know what goes on in "Coffee and Donut" sessions or Chamber Meetings in either town.
But who saw the "Growth in the WEST" on their radar. Wellinton and/or Mulvane and the 300 million dollar casino/resort/hotel.
I won't make this long but I would certainly appoint a project leader or group to research the expansion in Sumner County.
Why, Because there is not only the opportunity to capitilize on their growth - ex. Rv - parks
But there is the possibility that
they will attract -based on the pay- workers from Winfield and Ark City. What impact does that have on planning?
I may be wrong but the problem with focusing within our sandboxes
is that we not only miss opportunities but also threats!
If I was a commissioner/city or county or city planner/manager or Cowley Fist I would want to use
"Discovery" as a tool.
I'd want to know things like:
How many jobs, pay, what areas of business and jobs does that potentially impact/threaten.
How many jobs/people could potentially commute there from our area?
Is the target area of the casinos primarily from Wichita? Could it be as far as OKC KC or Joplin?
Does the poosibility of air travel exist which could be competitive at Strother Field?
I know its a strech!
But if it does:
*Car rental
*Bus or publice transportation to and from the casino?
It's not my place or intent to force an agenda on you or set yours.
But I'm not sure that Ark City Industries or Blue Sky or anyone in either town is looking at anything outside their respective towns.
As for the City Managers, Commisioners etc. they have jobs -you keep looking to them - finding fault with them - they are only as good as the information and opportunities that they are presented.
You need to spend sometime in front of the mirror!
How is it that so many people KNOW what city and county commissions should do, yet never run for office? Arm chair quarterbacking is easier? Because they know many of these things are going on, they just don't take the time to go to the meetings to see?
Me personally, I don't want the responsibility. Even if I did have all of the right answers most people would be loudly exclaiming how much better I could have done it their way.
Arm chair quarterbacks don't seem to concerned about how much money they spend on their ideas. Adding people to the payroll. People need offices and work space, a telephone, a computer to keep track. What the heck, it's only money.
Lots of great ideas. Shoot the commissioner who doesn't immediately put them into practice! Maybe someone should put a little extra thought into them before charging off. Maybe people should become more aware of what city and county people have already done before suggesting it again as if it had never happened.
Ideas and suggestions are great. Let's put them out there. But on the other hand, let's not assume that our local officials haven't done some of these things already.
I don't know how much time they actually put into their work, but I do know for a fact its a lot more than anyone who didn't even bother to run for office.
And on the "three amigos", we all voted them in. Now I don't know why, but at the time they seemed like the best choices. Where do we go from here?
I like the idea on studying up on what we can do with the possible or probable new casinos coming in. I tried to get that information almost 2 years ago when the new casinos came in south of us.
Unfortunately, nobody else thought it was important. Not the city manager or the other city commissioners. I had asked that a survey be done of other communities that had casinos come in, especially in Oklahoma. I was promised that someone would visit a few of those cities and get first hand information. It just never happened. I'm sorry I didn't follow through better. There were a lot of things going on.
I was hoping at that time for a motel on the south end of town, along with some gas stations with quick marts, and other travel conveniences. I think there is enough traffic down there to warrant these and other kinds of business. Jim Hendershot was able to get me a traffic study of that area to verify the traffic and growth possibilities. Unfortunately, I didn't follow through, so nothing has happened. I will start working on it again first thing tomorrow morning. I believe our new city manager will be able to see the possibilities moreso than previous management. I don't believe it will matter what other commissioners think on this, I believe it will be more spreading the information to the retail and business world. I'm sorry for dropping the ball on that one. Maybe some of that information can be used for the new casinos to the west.
Patrick McDonald
An interesting thought with the Casinos and River front development... retirees.
Retirees are actually a boon to the local economy and they often bring younger people with them because they have similar wants and needs (i.e., entertainment, restaurants, recreational activities).
Many towns in the South actively recruit retirees who are not interested in living in Florida. In a realtor.org survey, 33% of retirees said they would like to live a in a small town.
Here is an interesting article relating to how retirees can stimulate a local economy: http://chronicle.augusta.com
/stories/091707/yrb_144030.shtml
There are several things going for Ark City in terms of possible retiree recruitment.
1. Casinos
2. Two nice golf courses
3. Outdoor activities: state fishing lake, chaplin nature center, two rivers
4. Cowley College/Southwestern College- which provide cultural opportunities and life long learning opportunities
5.Close proximity to 3 metropolitan areas
6. Low cost of living
7. Retirees like quaint towns
"Arm chair quarterbacks don't seem to (sic) concerned about how much money they spend on their ideas"
The police chief, the fire chief and the high school principal don't pay their own wages, but we gladly pay them and are very happy to have them around.
A commercial/industrial development person will pay his wage 10 times over with the first large completed deal and will bring millions of dollars to the community through wages. It is spending a penny to make a dollar.
"let's not assume that our local officials haven't done some of these things already."
Right!!! Let's not assume anything one way or the other.
3 of 5 Commissioners have indicated there is no plan. There is no industrial park and there is no plan for one. There is no plan for TIFs and there is no plan for commercial development.
It is time to start. Ark City has had 20 years to think about it. Sure, think about it long enough to get it right, but thinking about it is not a sufficient excuse for more years of inaction.
It's not up to the Commissioners to make the plan, just to direct it and to approve it. The heavy lifting is done by the city employees.
I don't necessarily disagree with your post - just that up until now I think the responsibility of growth was left up to the "Private Sector" -like Ark City Industries and private businessmen and financial institutions. Thats where it should be - when/why did we start looking to Government to solve our problems! (20 Yrs. ago?)
Your plan funnels growth through a straw - he might actually be worth the money - but I still wonder where are the leaders and risk takers. Without them your just looking for (hiring) someone else to try to solve your problems.
What is it that holds us back as towns and in the area?
Geez Louise. You would thing I was suggesting Ark City manufacture missiles.
Even Blackwell Oklahoma has industrial parks and industrial support.
TUNK TUNK TUNK... Hello,,, hello,,, is this microphone on?
Private sector, local banks, etc., all have their own problems and have other things to do. That's why nothing has happened over the last 20 years.
When a group like AC Industries spends 3 years bringing something to the table it is shot down because it "wasn't invented here" (by the Commission). The "private sector" efforts of AC Industries is obviously not appreciated (and Ark City residents should want to know EXACTLY why that is).
Instead of some invisible force caused by the private sector, you might as well hope for Ark City progress to be made by the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
There is no plan, no method and nobody working on it and there hasn't been for 20 years. What the heck do you expect? Geez, it's no wonder...........
Glad you mentioned Blackwell OK, they are wishing they did not put all their eggs in one basket. They have lost a major industrial operation which generated approximatly 50% of their citys income. Now What? The Ark City Industries group was correct to start somewhere.
Yes. Absolutely!!!
AC Industries is going way beyond the call of duty, particularly after the way they have been treated.
It is too bad that Blackwell lost 50% of their revenue from their industrial park. Ark City DOESN'T HAVE AN INDUSTRIAL PARK and doesn't get ANYTHING from their non-existent industrial park.
Seems Blackwell is still 50% better off than Ark City.
The closest thing is Strother Field where none of the money comes to Ark City. That is why Winfield has an industrial park and makes incentives for new industries. Ark City's history is one of impeding, instead of encouraging development. (reference Creekstone)
I know it is by kicking and screaming and being dragged against the unmistakable Kansas stubborn contrarianism, but Ark City needs to actually do something, not just explain it all away and hope for the best.
Am I missing something? AC doesn't have an industrial park and isn't getting anything from said non-existant industrial park? I guess Goff Industrial Park, Creek Stone, Rubermaid and Northern Contours are all figments of my imagination.
Apparently we have the three blind mice, not the three amigos. They can't see Goff Industrial Park (gotta create a new one Goffs full or too old). They must not be listening to the person from the commision that's on the AC Industries board. Maybe its the three blind and deaf mice.
Maybe the commission needs to stop wasting its time micromanaging city employee's and start delegating authority. Better yet, maybe the City Commsion might just want to listen to the people of Ark City instead of just disposing of them as inconvient truths!
That's right. Goff is AC Industries and pays county, not city.
If it weren't for AC Industries, Ark City would be in truly bad shape.
The Commission needs to listen to them carefully.
AC Industries is established and has helped recruit several new ventures into the Goff Industrial Park. Now the City wants to have it's own industrial park at tax payer expense. Sounds like egos are getting in the way of progress! You would think we could be more productive considering we have a commisioneer that was the project manager for Sea World.
Maybe would could dig a big hole at Curry field and get us a big fish!
Ding! Ding! Ding!
Remember when the oposition group to Future Beef wanted to refuse to supply water to the project? That was their only option!
The fact is while not the same the situation at Strother Field is similar in nature! No way for the cities to recieve taxes on the properties!
Look I'm simply "PRO-Growth" for jobs and to build new/rebuild/use exisiting - infrastructure.
To make the area a better place so we can attract those things we desire and bring in new businesses industry, people and jobs!
The "Mark of good Leaders is to bring people together to achieve common or uncommon tasks/goals." The "Mark of Great leaders is they know they don't have to have all the answers - just how to get them - they don't drive wedges which alienate people - but simply work to unify those they can through information and the resolving of problems - to get the project(s) completed.
But those qualities are needed in both the Public and Private sectors. It shouldn't be a my way or no way approach!
That doesn't mean they can avoid- don't have to make tough choices or decisions to resolve gridlock which may or may not end inaction!
The county has been a significant beneficiary to industrial development. Most cities depend on income from industry to lower residents' property taxes, but Ark City has been asleep on this issue for the past few decades and has done nothing.
Over the past 5 years my taxes have increased from $1400/yr to $2000/yr and now there is going to be another hundred or so tacked on for a school bond and probably a hundred or more tacked on to make up for Cowley shortfall, although I guess that is to be seen.
It is remarkable that a privately funded group of businessmen have stepped up to the plate to develop industry around Ark City.
Ark City would be a ghost town without them.
(correction)Cowley College shortfall
OK, so you may ask, why is it important and what difference does it make that Ark City doesn't participate in industrial development?
It's all about incentives.
Because they are not receiving any revenue from major local industry, whether around Ark City or at Strother Field, the only thing that economically benefits them (particularly in the near term) is to block incentives.
That is what they did for the Big Box store. There was to be an incentive to the the Lowes developer to locate in Ark City, but because there weren't property revenues or near term large taxes, the Commissioners decided that it was somehow not in the city's best interest.
Even though Ark City and Winfield share ownership of Strother Field, because it is not incorporated in the city limits of either town, any revenue that comes from Strother is not divided between the towns, but goes to the county.
Any major shortfall, development or major incentive would need to be paid by the cities, even though they don't receive revenues. The Strother Field Commission consists of 2 commissioners from Ark City and 2 from Winfield.
Very surprisingly, even though all of the money goes to the county, the county has no seat on the commission, no funding responsibility and no say on the operation of Strother Field.
There is really no reason that either town would make any significant investment in Strother Field, and because of this none has been made. It shows. The airport itself looks fairly tattered and the significant deals that happen all the time in Ponca (spec building construction, etc.) doesn't happen at Strother Field. Money flows out but doesn't flow in.
A while ago, Strother was looking to the county for funding and the county agreed, but required a position on the Strother Field Commission. They were refused and it didn't happen. (anyone that wants to talk about "egos getting in the way of progress" could start right here)
Why is that important?
No developmental incentives.
When Cessna came to the area and asked for significant incentives to re-open the Cessna factory at Strother, they were turned down. Why would the cities invest heavily to bring in a large manufacturer (to be bigger at Strother than GE) when eventually no tax or lease revenues would ever go back to the cities?
Makes sense (in a weird way) to block it. Independence didn't have that problem and made the deal. They now have about 1500 people working there.
It's not about AC Industries. We're glad to have them and appreciate them very much.
It's not about Strother Field, same there (glad and appreciate).
It's about structure. Ark City has been asleep at the wheel on developing something, anything, that creates income to the town.
In the vacuum of inaction by the city, AC Industries has stepped in to do what should be done by the town, but no direct revenues go to Ark City from their development.
There is SIGNIFICANT revenue that goes to the city by property taxes from the employees, so their development isn't for nothing. The point is, though, no income is provided to Ark City from local industry, whether Strother or otherwise in unincorporated areas.
What are the solutions? Well, they're pretty obvious.
In the past most of the Industrial Development in Arkansas City has been allowed to get City services without being annexed. In the past the Rodeo Packing Plant and Total Refinery were not annexed. Currently an area on West Madison Avenue around Good Times Production and area around Skyline Manufacturing on North 2nd Street is not annexed. The company’s in these areas get all the benefits of City services without paying their fair share of taxes. Why has past commissions and the current commission not annexed these property? This is one reason property taxes in Ark City are so high we have given these companies a permanent tax abatement.
I've got to agree with you on that one, though I have brought it up several times. Other commissioners don't seem to grasp it.
Patrick McDonald
Here's a solution:
1. Lease Strother Field to the County for 20 years with multiple options for some small amount, maybe $150,000.00/year (not much if you consider they get maybe 6 million from it). Split the money between Winfield and Ark City. (It's more than they're getting now.) Disband Strother Field Commission.
2. Change the name to Cowley County - Strother Regional Airport. The County runs it and funds it. Ark City and Winfield are on an advisory board, but during the lease, the operations are the county.
3. Take the Ark City share and pay the wages of a commercial / industrial development director. Immediately set up an industrial development board. Recruit the AC Industries guys. If they are really not in it for the money, they probably would be happy to help and nobody knows more about what is needed than they do.
4. Work on (and put on paper with Commission approval) a 20 year plan for Ark City commercial and industrial development, ie. what parcels could be used, what incentives given, what target industries and stores and what type of tie-in could be done with the college, ie., grants for training, etc.
5. Immediately start an outreach marketing program and grow the town.
6. Make sure any development created by the board financially benefits Ark City. Don't issue IRBs or anything else that is not directly in the city's interest.
7. Commercial / industrial developer to coordinate with banks and contractors and real estate companies to develop housing to meet the needs of Ark City, future and present.
There's the structure needed to turn Ark City around.
It sure looks easy, doesn't it?
Yep. It'll never happen. Too bad. Not one part of it. Ark City will be facing the same issues in 10 years, only worse.
The first step is to quit playing monkey in the middle with Strother Field and to get someone with a bidirectional financial interest running it.
The second step is to make sure Ark City industry actually benefits Ark City.
But, as I said, it probably won't happen because it is impossible.
Most everything in Ark City is impossible.
That's what the problem is.
We need to change that.
I think if all the people that think it was impossible move, maybe something would happen. I for one am sick and tired of all of the people that tell exactly how to fix things when they have no understanding of the workings at all. That's what this site is for, all of the people who don't have a clue and won't put out any effort to tell the people doing all of the work that they will never ever get it right. Someone care to step out of the crowd, maybe give their name, not hide under anonymous, maybe even run for office and make a change? No, I didn't think so. It is too easy to put everyone else down, insist you are the smartest, then sit quietly in your little room and watch the trouble you start. If someone thinks they have the real answer, stand up! Suggestions are great, but if you are all knowing, do something about it.
Top Six List
1. That IS the real answer. It would work and work well.
2. I know exactly how it works. Down to the executive sessions.
3. Two years is too long to waste time/delay change waiting to be elected.
4. Too many people "sick and tired" and not even suggesting anything (at all).
5. People who think Ark City progress is impossible do leave town. That's why the population is down. Many of the ones left are the sick and tired/no suggestions ones.
6. So what is this, a joke? I notice you're anonymous.
That's because I can't understand why anyone in their right mind would run for office. If they do well it is because we told them too, if they do badly we have someone to blame.
This problem has been going on for 20 years you say? If you had the answer you have had 10 opportunities to run. Is this a joke? Apparently so!
Back to reality. Why is it we can't offer these suggestions, and have the city look into what can be done? Just because we don't see the answer doesn't mean it isn't in the works, or already tried. Somehow I just don't see anyone out there committing 40 hours per week examining options and trying different solutions. Like the old engineer said "It looks great on paper, now let's put it together and see if it really works."
I can see some validity to your idea, but I think the county commission would do a much worse job of running Strother Field than the combined cities are doing. At least with the cities running things there are good employers out there. I don't know anything about airstrips, but the industrial park seems to be doing well. How do they run airfields in other cities? Do airfields usually have industrial parks? Is it the airstrip or the train that makes it such a good place for industry. I see a whole lot of questions, and a lot of guesses, but no supported answers. Where would we get more information?
Two city commisioners walk into a bar. One commisioner brings a duck. One says you know, because of the open meeting law, we can't talk about city business. The other says that's OK, we'll talk about industrail develepment.
"Do airfields usually have industrial parks?"
Almost all of them do. Kansas exempts airport property from ad valorem taxes and the Feds restrict what can be done with the money from an airport and industrial park. The industrial park supports the operations of the airport and itself. There are taxes and "payments in lieu of taxes" that go to the county.
Most airports are run by counties in Kansas.
"Is it the airstrip or the train that makes it such a good place for industry."
Both. The airport is underused. Could be a lot better if developed, but, no money. GE needs it. On major approved improvements the airport is federally funded 90% to their 10% on projects. I'm not sure how much the train is used, but it should be a strong appeal.
"I think the county commission would do a much worse job"
The day to day is done by Strother employees. There is an experienced Strother Manager. That probably would not change. The main thing to change is when road repair is needed or if a major improvement is needed, it would be a decision which could be made by the beneficiary of the field.
The risk-reward scenario. Example: to spend $500,000 on a building which might bring in 1 million in eventual taxes. The cities would see that as only a $500,000 expense and historically would not choose it. The county might see that as reasonable development. Road repair: easier for the county than the cities. The county makes the money, they should call the shots.
There have been discussions about it in the past.
Shouldn't the roads be maintained by the county anyway? Even though Strother is owned by both cities, the roads are not private. Are they?
If the county ran Strother Field anything like they are trying to run the jail, I can't see Strother Field lasting long. Over budget and buying unnecessary property.
At least with the two cities they have to work something out together so there has to be more thought put into it.
Is Strother Field a place to make a profit, or is it only for economic development for the county. There are a lot of good, high paying jobs, several entrepreneurs, and it appears to have more growth than decline.
Since the paper never reports on it, there must be very little impact on our day to day lives from Strother Field. Or is that just another area they are not concerned with? Is it an area we should be concerned with?
"Even though Strother is owned by both cities, the roads are not private. Are they?"
Not sure. I think so. Pretty sure.
"Is Strother Field a place to make a profit, or is it only for economic development for the county."
Strange question. I'm not sure what profit means here. There is money made by the taxes and pilot (ie. in lieu of taxes) payments and that goes to the county. Whether this is considered profit or economic development, it is all the same: income. Goes to the county, not the cities.
There ought to be some way that the cities can benefit from Strother and not just be the ones responsible for any shortfalls or expansion overheads without receiving any revenue from the field.
Strother is doing fine, but it probably could be much better if there were some investment other than just from trying to grow it from cash-flow from leases. The way it is structured, the cities are unlikely to invest money into it, because they will never see any return on the money.
The only entity that can see return on investment is the county.
In any case it's been going like this for a long time and it's pretty messed up, but likely to continue like this forever.
The only thing that could be done and comply with airport rules is to lease it out, something that is sometimes done with airports. With that, the cities still own it.
It's the only way that I can think of to get economic benefit to the cities.
There are 2 areas of Ark City that could be improved with a structure change. One is that industry could be asked to pay their fair share of Ark City taxes and the second way is to try to get some benefit from the city (1/2) owned Strother Field.
Both of these are pretty well ingrained and changing them may be worse than getting a badger out of a hole.
But it is not unreasonable to propose. Other cities that have airports get some financial benefit from the industry on the airport. Other cities get revenue from their industrial parks. It goes a long way to paying city expenses, etc.
If industry paid their fair share, everybody's taxes would go down. If all industry paid, then even the tax rate to the industries would be lower. More money means less rate to meet the needs.
Individuals can have meetings, clubs, demonstrations, bake sales, petitions, rallys, sit-ins, walk-ins letter writing campaigns, press releases, chili cook-offs, etc. to change this, but the only ones that can make these changes are the City Commissioners.
Since they sit on the Strother Commission, good luck on anything changing there.
Who in the Commission would have the guts to propose annexing Good Times or Creekstone? Good luck there too.
The only thing you could hope for in a practical sense is a policy changing industrial development where it funds Ark City in the future, by restricting IRBs, utilities and the things that industry wants that the city controls.
Or maybe annex the industry with a graduated abatement or something like that.
They have a permanent abatement from city taxes now.
Maybe we've hit on why Ark City has high taxes and has a hard time coming up with money. Fixing it is a different story.
Should do it though.
"Even though Strother is owned by both cities, the roads are not private. Are they?"
Not sure. I think so. Pretty sure.
"Is Strother Field a place to make a profit, or is it only for economic development for the county."
Strange question. I'm not sure what profit means here. There is money made by the taxes and pilot (ie. in lieu of taxes) payments and that goes to the county. Whether this is considered profit or economic development, it is all the same: income. Goes to the county, not the cities.
There ought to be some way that the cities can benefit from Strother and not just be the ones responsible for any shortfalls or expansion overheads without receiving any revenue from the field.
Strother is doing fine, but it probably could be much better if there were some investment other than just from trying to grow it from cash-flow from leases. The way it is structured, the cities are unlikely to invest money into it, because they will never see any return on the money.
The only entity that can see return on investment is the county.
In any case it's been going like this for a long time and it's pretty messed up, but likely to continue like this forever.
The only thing that could be done and comply with airport rules is to lease it out, something that is sometimes done with airports. With that, the cities still own it.
It's the only way that I can think of to get economic benefit to the cities.
There are 2 areas of Ark City that could be improved with a structure change. One is that industry could be asked to pay their fair share of Ark City taxes and the second way is to try to get some benefit from the city (1/2) owned Strother Field.
Both of these are pretty well ingrained and changing them may be worse than getting a badger out of a hole.
But it is not unreasonable to propose. Other cities that have airports get some financial benefit from the industry on the airport. Other cities get revenue from their industrial parks. It goes a long way to paying city expenses, etc.
If industry paid their fair share, everybody's taxes would go down. If all industry paid, then even the tax rate to the industries would be lower. More money means less rate to meet the needs.
Individuals can have meetings, clubs, demonstrations, bake sales, petitions, rallys, sit-ins, walk-ins letter writing campaigns, press releases, chili cook-offs, etc. to change this, but the only ones that can make these changes are the City Commissioners.
Since they sit on the Strother Commission, good luck on anything changing there.
Who in the Commission would have the guts to propose annexing Good Times or Creekstone? Good luck there too.
The only thing you could hope for in a practical sense is a policy changing industrial development where it funds Ark City in the future, by restricting IRBs, utilities and the things that industry wants that the city controls.
Or maybe annex the industry with a graduated abatement or something like that.
They have a permanent abatement from city taxes now.
Maybe we've hit on why Ark City has high taxes and has a hard time coming up with money. Fixing it is a different story.
Should do it though.
Seems the blog is acting up. I didn't post or mean to post the last one twice.
Strother field is owned by the cities of Arkansas City and Winfield and while it does have good years, it is not highly profitable. I think that about 20% of the counties taxes are collected from businesses in Strother field but the county provides no money for infrastructure in the field so most profits from the field are used to support the infrastructure and care of the field and the businesses located there. If there was a way to use some of the tax money collected to support the field, it would be a lot more profitable. Any complaints about lost tax revenue at Strother Field should be issued to the county commission.
As for Creekstone, it is in the city limits and the tax exemption for them will expire sometime around 2013. At that time, they will be paying property tax. Annexing other businesses into the city limits is something that the city commission will be considering this year. Industries not paying their fair share is more a state issue because cities are no longer allowed to collect taxes on industrial equipment. Our state Representative (against the cities wishes) voted successfully to exempted most new business and industrial equipment from taxation purchased after 2006 so now the only new tax revenue developed from an industrial site is property tax. As existing industries replace their aging equipment, the city will loose more revenure. Because of that bill, retail is a lot more attractive from a taxation standpoint since a city would not only collect property tax on the building but also sales tax.
Creekstone does not have a property tax, but they do pay the city a Payment in Lieu of Tax (PILOT). It is a substantial amount, but not nearly what the full property taxes would have been. I think the city did well in negotiating that deal. Using incentives to bring business and still collecting a portion to improve the city's stand.
This PILOT has paid for all of the Family's First Initiative, replacing old playground equipment and other recreational equipment. There is enough still coming in to pay the difference (after the grant) on the Hike/Bike trail, but that would use all of the remaining value until the end of the term. Of course, at that time, the city will start collecting full property taxes.
Patrick McDonald
If you really want to know why your property taxes are so high go to the attached web site and review the information. The legislature keeps providing exemptions to business and industry and shifting the tax burden to residential property owners.
http://hws.wichita.edu/component/
option,com_docman/Itemid,226
/task,cat_view/gid,154/
"the county provides no money for infrastructure in the field"
"If there was a way to use some of the tax money collected to support the field, it would be a lot more profitable."
My point exactly.
County won't fund it and cities won't either. There must be a way, one way or the other. It looks like it would grow Strother. There should be some way it could benefit the cities, as well.
Thanks for the answer on Creekstone and the upcoming issues of annexing other industries.
Paying their fair share doesn't mean they should be paying taxes that the state says they don't owe, and it is without dispute that industry is encouraged with negotiated deals, such as pilots and the like.
The only issue is to make sure they aren't given an undeserved windfall by receiving city services while not paying city property taxes.
That is, by eventually paying something and not just having a permanent pass.
Is there city owned land available that can be given away to bring in industry like Winfield? Does the city have a list of this land? Are the commissioners aware of it? If there is then it's no wonder they don't have a plan. They don't even know what they have to plan with.
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