Here is a link to a study done by Wichita State University about economic trends and such.
Just posting it for potential conversation.
www.arkcity.net/data/ccet.pdf
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A blog by Managing Editor James Jordan about the newspaper. So far it's mostly about city commission, but I hope to delve into other local issues.
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- Traveler Editor
- I have been at the Traveler for 4 years. I have been in the newspaper business longer than that. I came here from South Carolina. Apart from that, I am an unapologetic Jesus Freak. I am not, however, Republican.
40 comments:
http://www.arkcity.net/data/ccet.pdf
"Cowley County's population growth (0.1 percent) was well below that of the nation 47.3 percent), the state (22.9 percent) and south central Kansas (25.8 percent) during this period."
Cowley has 1 and 1/2 times the national average of total income percentage coming from social security, unemployment, welfare, disability, and medical payments.
Anybody who knows Cowley County will see that this report nails it.
It looks like it all started in decline 20 years ago, but it seems to be increasing rapidly lately, according to the charts.
Anybody that thinks status quo is good for Ark City had better wake up. It's time for change.
Good post
we can change the tide though.
I've just heard an outrage that I hope is not true.
I was told that this new meat market that will be built on South Summit will get a 95% tax rebate that the owner will pocket. It does not have to go to any kind of infrastructure. Not water, not sewer, not streets, not sidewalks, NOTHING.
How does this contrast to the north end Lowe's deal where the taxes went back into the infrastructure?
The north development had much more to offer in the way of retail selection, jobs, and as I understand it more future businesses. This new meat market will have a handful of employees and bring us .... what?
How can the commission snub us on all of the possibilities in the north with the taxes being reinvested just to throw money at a new meat market that may or may not make it?
Where is the justice?
I sat through all the meetings.
Absolutely not true.
Only break he got was a lower than appraised value price for the lot.
j
The one thing Ark City really has to get over is the idea that someone putting a in new business is sneaky or doing wrong.
If I had a quarter for every time I heard someone in Ark City say "well, OK, I'll try them in a couple of years if they last" or threatening to boycott businesses because of one lame reason or another (including opposition to the BB store), I would have enough money to buy everyone a brownie at Sarah's Home Again Bakery.
Ark City, GET OVER IT.
Businesses that come to town are spending lots of money (in the case of the BB store $30 million plus) to make your town a better place to live.
Small businesses owners are risking and many times losing their personal life savings in order to see to it you can buy imported coffee, used books and 10/24 by 2" screws downtown.
With insurance, taxes, rent, upkeep on old buildings, etc. it is almost unimaginable what it costs to run a business downtown. These people are different, for sure.
Not only do they talk up Ark City, they put their own money behind it.
Any business that throws money at Ark City deserves your business.
Shop Locally First.
I hadn't figured in the discount they got on the property.
The way I hear it the building is in a historic center and any improvements get a 95% tax rebate.
Maybe they mentioned it at the commission and maybe they didn't have to. Either way that's what it looks like.
I can see kicking in a little for home town folks and a home grown business, but 95% rebate and discounted property to employ just a handful of people?
This is a no brainer. We want our money to make improvements and to keep us growing, not just given away. Or as Commissioner Kuhn would put it "Is this deal so shaky that it needs our money to make it work?" If I have misquoted I apologize, but I'm very sure that was close.
"Is this deal so shaky that it needs our money to make it work?"
Let's put it another way:
Would Ark City business development continue without incentives?
Probably not. That is why there are incentives: to encourage growth.
Any building owner downtown that improves a property gets a 95% tax incentive on the improvements, based on expenses, with limitations.
After the incentive is done, the property is taxed at the new and improved value. Many times this would create a much higher tax revenue than without the improvements, even considering the incentive.
I don't know if the meat market qualifies for this, but all other businesses downtown do. It is pretty standard for most downtowns across the US and not unique to A/C. Not really something to get rumpled about. It encourages people to build up deteriorated downtown areas.
If the meat market qualifies, then why not? Maybe it will encourage them to make a try of it in Ark City. It is something we haven't had, maybe it will be really good.
We need many new businesses and this is the way to get them to come to Ark City instead of going to other towns that also offer incentives.
To put it all into perspective, I know of a restaurant owner in another town who was offered one year's FREE RENT by the Ponca City Development folks to relocate his business to Ponca City.
We have to stop thinking that the edge of the earth starts at the city limits.
yeah, but is it fair? why does the meat market get these benefits and not the lowe's? isn't what is fair to one fair to all? wouldn't there have been more benefit from the lowe's? more people hired, more money coming into the town?
it doesn't make sense to provide so much for a small retailer downtown and not provide anything for a large retailer that could do so much more. there just doesn't seem to be any balance to it.
are they just going to offer specials to the home boys, or is the city going to help outsiders to come in? will the city allow the town to grow, or see to it that only locals can get any benefit in business. it seems like it is fixed. can someone see the sense of it?
Great posts.
Winfield GIVES AWAY land in its industrial park.
You have to give incentives.
Its like buying a car. Are you going to buy a car from a dealer who doesnt give any discounts, rebates or even a free tank of gas when you can get all that at any other dealership ?
I dont know how the meat market thing will work out ... the discount is for improvements .. doesnt say whether it applies to new construction or not.
I agree that we need to get over this thing of any new business being evil.
I try to shop at local businesses, but competition is good.
j
"yeah, but is it fair?"
Absolutely not. But let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Just because some pinheaded Commissioners didn't see the value of hearing a TIF proposal shouldn't make us want to deny incentives to others who had nothing to do with the BB store deal.
Go Ark City and grow!!!
I'm looking at the declining figures of the county, but see a contrast in employment. Future Beef, now Creekstone, brought some 500 plus jobs into Ark City. The county has not shown any increase, but the city must have. If Ark City had not taken the initiative where would we be today?
"If Ark City had not taken the initiative where would we be today?"
No kidding.
A number of industries left Cowley County or scaled down before and around 1998. The losses of these were made up partially by Creekstone (and Future Beef PPL before them).
Ark City should be real glad Creekstone and their employees are there.
I've always wondered why these industries left, but it seems to have been swept under the rug. I do remember quotes from the city and county at the time about "all business should pay their fair share or leave" or something like that. And then the industries left.
I can imagine it may have been about refusing further abatements or aggressive tax valuations, but I don't really know. Maybe we've been down this road before.
If there is someone who actually knows detail about any of these, please put it on the blog. It would be interesting to know.
As I recall but not in chronilogical order.
Stother Field:
Cessena - lost to product liability laws on light plane production.
Stuther Thermo-flood - lost due to changes in oil related market/domestic production.
Gordon and Piatt - Company sold and moved operation to Tulsa - John
Zinc.
Halliburton - Oilfield services closed operation and moved from area.
Central Plains - recently closed and moved to Independence.
Winfield:
Binney and Smith - Competition and the purchase by Hallmark.
Winfield State Hospital - Decision to move from institutional setting to private Group Homes.
Ark City:
Rodeo Meats - Labor dispute and cost to update/upgrade facility.
Total Refinery - Oil industry decision - my understnding was to close one facility to improve or expand at another site.
Gilliand Printing - purchased by an out of town business and moved.
You'll have to add any I left out but in many cases the number or quality ( ie. pay and benefits) of those jobs was not retained with the jobs that followed.
In many cases we could not believe that what we thought were businesses that were solid and had been around for in some cases decades were gone!
We need Leaders with vision, not people to stifle or control or limit growth to their money on their terms or their sites!
Who will it be?
It's important to consider that Gordon Piatt is operating today, Cessna is making the same plane today, Central, others, etc. Just somewhere else.
We've got to make sure that Ark City has people with a "never-say-die", "failure is not an option" attitude to see to it that if a company has a transition (purchase, etc.) that they are more likely to stay than go.
It's almost a sure thing that Easton (Allentown), PA, Independence, KS and Tulsa, OK gave Binney and Smith, Cessna and Gordon Piatt significant incentives to newly locate there. In some cases maybe they even recruited them.
What were we doing at that time?
Not at all to point fingers, but to raise the important issue that if we fully understand the past and know the why's and economic benefits presented by other towns to these industries, we can then recruit new ones and firmly keep the ones we have.
I remember the recent heated tax conflict with GE. I'm sure if they moved away they would have said it was about restructuring or product shifts instead of an aggressive stance on taxes.
When Future Beef failed, the bank that held the debt marketed the building and operations to other beef processors in order to get the plant going and minimize their losses.
Future Beef had a tax abatement that was based on their operations. Ark City's position was that since Future Beef went out of business, all of the previous tax abatement had to be refunded. They insisted the bank pay this up front before they would permit the re-opening of the beef plant.
Let's face it: Ark City got lucky on Creekstone. If the bank said no, I'm sure the press release would not mention the $2 million, just that they couldn't find an operator.
Where would Ark City be if GE said no to the taxes on what they felt was leased property?
There seems to be an attitude about any kind of big business that they should be squeezed for every last dime. It's important to see how that looks from the industries' side, especially when they have other options.
Other places give significant incentives for industry and large retailers to locate in their towns. Just something to think about for the future.
Good Post!
I recently read a Letter to the Editor in your paper - an elderly man who was stating that his savings after retirement was only drawing 3% interest and was possibly losing ground to inflation. He was asking for solid deals!
I'll cut to the chase! It's not my place or business - but is there a way to allow the people of this area to invest in their future? Maybe to allow others outside the area to invest as well? Maybe even from another country?
I know "risk" vs gauranteed return. But there are levels of risk and some more secure than others.
But with the global economy and the probability of reduced interest rates as are required to drive the slowing economy rates will most likely go lower.
We have people with money invested all over the place in all types of investment vehicles. Could they get a better rate of return from investing in the growth and future of Ark City, Winfield and Cowley County?
Sorry but I just couldn't leave this one unposted!
Any ideas?
The only local entity I know of geared solely towards the economic growth of Ark City is Ark City Industries.
I'm sure shares are available.
The new meat market is in the Historic District and is eligible for a 10-year 95% tax abatement. Below is the link to the City’s web site on the tax abatement.
http://www.arkcity.org/index.asp?nid=657
It's not an abatement. It is a refund against the expenses of improvement or renovation.
So, what's wrong with that?
There is very little if anything left that is altruistic about Ark City Industries. It used to be that way. The current crowd appears to be in it for themselves.
If they are in it for themselves, please show us what they are getting. So far as I can tell they receive no dividends or anything else.
What is in it for them?
According tot he paper they even offered to use the proceeds of the sale of the land for Lowe's to help develop downtown.
Maybe you're right. If we talk down anyone and everyone trying to do something good we can kill this town yet. Or we can stop being ignorant and pay attention to what is going on around us. It's up to you.
The meat market owners still get to keep 95% of the taxes they should be paying for 10 years.
I ask again, what's wrong with that?
I really don't mind that they can keep the taxes to open a new business. I just wish that the Lowe's shopping center could have come in paying the taxes and having them rerouted back into paying for the streets and water and sewer and all. I can't figure out why the commission would do one and not the other. It just doesn't make any sense
I think they had in their mind to play hardball and that Lowe's would come here anyway, or someone else would come in without the incentives.
Why would any big retailer come to Ark City without any concessions when all the other towns are offering deals? It just may never happen.
It is like thinking people would buy a car for $300.00 over retail. If it ever happens, just think what "profit" you could make!!! You would eventually come to wonder why there aren't shoppers out on the lot anymore.
Same situation with playing hardball with new development.
After many years of this you would think the Commissioners would get the message.
There was a specific influence that occurred about 20 years ago that changed the mindset of local government where people's comments were of less importance than the proper rules of order in meetings. This has strongly contributed to opposing change and growth.
The local commissions need to put this negative tradition behind them and start listening to the people.
Playing "It's my story and I'm stuck with it" is a fine game for grade school, but is not a sufficient response from government officials.
I was raised being told "it's not what you know, it's who you know." I think this is a fine example. The new meat market owners had friends on the commission so made an easy deal. The Lowe's people didn't pad the pockets, or perhaps might have hurt the business, of the commission so they didn't get the deal. If they aren't based on the same thing - something stinks.
I have listened carefully to all the blogs and people in our community and have thought long and hard about posting any ideas. The ability to come up with a solution to any problem, we must first identify the problems. The problems in this community run deep. This community is full of those that have and those that don’t. Those that have tend to set the rules and provide the direction of the city good or bad this is a fact of life. Our community is stuck in our ancient ways and our leaders have failed to make the proper changes to correct anything. I relate Ark City and its management to Henry Ford. I believe his own workers told him that people want change and progress and different options and colors of cars. I believe he replied with “ they can have anything color they want as long as it is black.” This is a perfect example of a failure to change with the times. I have seen it happen in our community and it will continue until our leaders dispose of their egos and move forward.
We have seen the hate and discontent stirred by annexation, another example of our elected leaders failing to embrace the rural community. They claimed they did not pay their fair share but used our roads without paying for them. It appears this same type of philosophy will continue, our commission and new City Manager are hard at work building a wall around the city. Until our elected leaders and city manager learn to embrace new ideas we will have to accept the status quo.
People want to work and play where there are opportunities to thrive and where progressive attitudes are the norm. I predict we will start to see the movers and shakers start to move somewhere else. Businesses will find it harder to fill management positions and the city will lose good people. They will climb your wall Mr. City Manager and Commission for bigger and better things.
I've been very careful not to step in because I don't want to interfere with the flow of thoughts and ideas. In this particular case I thought it time to put my 2 cents in. The new city manager has come in with many new ideas, and open for many more. He has also brought his own style of management to the city. His goals are much different than we have had in the past. I believe the city made a big turn when he was hired. I believe he will continue to make great changes, if the commission doesn't hold him back. Each of us has our own style. I like the style and direction of the city manager. Each of us commissioners has our own style. We have been together for less than a year and we have not come together on a common goal as yet. Hopefully in the next few months we can hammer out a few ideas and a direction. I think the city manager has more experience and training in finding that direction, but in the end the commission will tell him what to do. We will all just have to wait and see what gets worked out.
Patrick McDonald
I'll give two cents and some change back. I believe the city sets the pace for our community. The city infrastructure and city services are the largest billboard for future bussiness, employers, and potential new customers to our little town. We must have top notch community services to continue to make ourselves more attractive than the next town. Don't get me wroung I think we have some exxcellent services. Here is the problem if those providing these services are not treated fairly they will move on. It is very evident that the city has invested in their people but will it continue. You lost one very skilled department head and rumor is that several others are looking. What is the deal are we trying to downsize? Seems our city will lose the investments we have made in good people.
well Pat maybe you could have waited before laying 8 grand on him for a raise when you takeing away from the employees below him who actualy provide the service to the city customers, soon you will have no one working for this city who will respond when you need them, OH yeah i forgot you have Kuhn Mechanical ready to jump right in
Good Comments!!! Looks like city workers are about to get the shaft,, there have never been any paid on call status for city workers, however they have been there for you rain, sleet, hail, or snow, at all times during and after regular working hours.
The city takes this for granted as you allow management to slap your diligent workers in the face and tell them their value can be found in the toilet,
Better find a way to show them they are appeciated before you lose your star players
The neighbors dog tore up my trash one morning and before I could pick it up the sanitation crews picked it all up for me even the stuf blowing down the alley, I also had to call ems for my mother, the crews were very proffessional and were very careful with my mom. These type of employees are a sign of good leadership! Would be a sad day to lose good leaders. Good leaders are hard to come by! Why would our top dogs be bailing out? Is there something we have all missed? Do the commissioneers want to run things?
do not confuse good leadership with commitment
This is rather strange for me. A year or so ago I was overwhelmed with people complaining about service. Has it changed so much, or was it different people? Snow removal, street cleaning, customer service, a number of different areas.
And I'm not surprised to hear the rumors flying. This wouldn't be Ark City without the negativity and rumors. I see them on the blog constantly. I can't see that they change things.
Patrick McDonald
you never do see much
People change jobs all the time for all kinds or reasons. One guy leaves and the sky is not falling.
If someone would cut down all these trees, I could see the forest!
lets be nice people.
go patrick !
lets be nice people.
go patrick !
It's too bad more information won't come out about the study, the citizen survey and the other sources including the 77 corridor study.
The only problem with these blogs is that things roll off the end and are never heard from again.
Maybe someone will resurrect this one.
Patrick McDonald
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