The "window committee" meeting lasted nearly 3 hours. Lots of talking, and perhaps somewhat productive.
They will meet again, probably next week.
There is a consensus that "something" needs to be done, though the building owners object to being told that they have to do windows, or that they have to do anything really.
They say they are willing to do something.
They want to get more building owners involved.
They want to look into what tax breaks might be available, and what the city could do to help in that regard. The city offers big tax breaks, but that doesn't keep their county and state taxes down.
We shall see...
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Someone mentioned elsewhere about the fox guarding the hen house.
It's a shame that few of the commissioners have any backbone. They know what needs to be done, they just can't do it.
In this case it almost seems like one commissioner found a way to make sure nothing happens.
Stonewalling progress.
They must think it is their job.
Doing it for years.
and what will you say when something DOES happen? will it be an accident or good planning? only two members of the public showed up at the meeting by my count so how would you know what went on anyway?
I have taken the liberty of summarizing the nature of all of the complaints by people about the current process that maybe taking place and may have success.
"A goal without a method is nonsense." W. Edwards Deming
"For every complex question there is a simple answer, and it is wrong." H. L. Mencken
So, the commission wants to clean up the town.
The committee "seems" to agree with this basic premise. Only time will tell if they are serious or if the commission just needs to proceed with its previous plans.
I propose the committe be given 45 days from their first meeting to see if they are going to act. If not, Plan B should go in to place and they will be required to follow a new ordinance.
Thats a good point.
The meeting was pretty good. They seem to be serious, but as you say, time will tell.
I like your idea of a deadline to see some action being taken.
I think Scott Margolius is trying to make something happen.
There are some people who are trying to make positive change. We need to give them the benefit of the doubt sometimes, but also hold their feet to the fire if they don't deliver.
Let's encourage our officials to keep going, instead of back-biting them.
If they don't deliver ... there's always the next election.
There's always next election.
Yeah, but a lot of damage can be done between now and then!
Is it the next election that will change anything? 2 of the ending terms seem to be doing the right things. It's the ones that will only be half way through their terms that worries me.
they have a goal meeting session tomorrow night.
senior center 7 p.m.
be there !
"entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem"
or: All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best.
Known as Occam's razor.
It is best if they do it on their own. Let's face it though, none of the AC building owners will do anything without pressure.
The simplest solution is to immediately prohibit the installation of ugly covering material over windows for everyone downtown. With an ordinance.
If the building owners will agree (with teeth in agreement) to make improvements on existing windows, then do it. Make it easy. Let them take reasonable time but require progress.
Otherwise make an ordinance.
Let's not let the project get sidetracked and forgotten.
"and what will you say when something DOES happen? will it be an accident or good planning?"
I'm not sure I could fit it in Japanese poetry and I don't think we are at much risk of it happening anyway.
Let me see if I get the picture correct.
You want to have a property downtown, but you don't want to be told to clean up a filty mess, and make it look presentable, and remove a potential health risk.
BUT
You still want the police and fire protection for your run down, ratty uninhabital structure.
You want the civil protections, but are afraid that you will have to spend money to comply, afraid you may have a tax increase somewhere down the line.
BUT
You haven't had a sleepless night about the fact the rest of the community has to pay it's fair share of taxes to support your folley.
Fix it, get rid of it, tear it down, but do something besides cry in your beer.
It's a shame that the government has to "make" someone take care of their property. Where's the pride?
I just saw the opinion page about the paintings on the plywood "windows" downtown and how nice they look. (Really? Nice wouldn't be a word I'd use to describe them, but to each his own I suppose.) I hope the city isn't under the same impression--when they come for a visit, many of our out-of-town friends have asked, "What's up with the boarded-up windows?" referring to those "nice" painted plywood windows and the corrugated sheet metal windows!
Have they looked into making the downtown a historical landmark site so they can get funding to rehab the buildings, or do they have to be city-owned to do that? Didn't know what that all entails or if it's more trouble than it's worth...
Or, what about meeting them halfway and help bid out the windows to a contractor (in-town or out-of-town) to get the best price. I would assume if someone could get a big chunk of the downtown building owners' business they'd cut a deal.
I think some of the commissioners might be divided on this. Some must be more firm on glass only than others. I think we should find out who thinks what and throw our support behind them!
Have they looked into making the downtown a historical landmark site so they can get funding to rehab the buildings, or do they have to be city-owned to do that? Didn't know what that all entails or if it's more trouble than it's worth...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
A main street association would do the trick. Plenty of state and federal funds available.
Just look at Newkirk.
It takes a few people willing to put in some time and effort ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Or, what about meeting them halfway and help bid out the windows to a contractor (in-town or out-of-town) to get the best price.
>>>>>>
Interesting note .. at the meeting building owners were saying it wold cost $400 per window.
Scott Margolius said he had checked around and had gotten rough estimates at less than half the cost.
definitely an interesting idea.
but the building owners - some at least - want help with paying the bill...
"but the building owners - some at least - want help with paying the bill..."
The constantly repeated comments of building owners downtown were that Lowes could build as long as it was their own dime. Same thing should apply here, its your building fix it on your own dime!
"but the building owners - some at least - want help with paying the bill..."
That's BS, plain and simple.
It's your building, you bought it or inherited it, it's yours.
Fix it, sell it, give it away, it's yours, and your responsibility, not mine, nor anyone else who lives here and pays taxes.
You want our tax money to help you, and we get nothing from it.
Hey, I want help paying bills too.(not really, I'll take care of my own)
James, I know you've mentioned more than once a MainStreet Assoc. Do you know (or anyone else know) if any of that is in the works yet? What does it take to start one--maybe if folks know what it entails, they'd be more likely to volunteer???
A.C. has some beautiful historical buildings, and I can't imagine how/why they ended up looking like they do. I'm in Kansas City and they had the same thing--totally let the downtown buildings and infrastructure go to "heck" and now they're having to spend millions of dollars to bring it back.
no move that i know of.
they have one in newkirk and in winfield .
just needs someone with some vision to go through the paper work
im going to find out what is involved
we are planning some stories about it.
I see people hopping in this main street association bandwagon and the sentiment is great. But, we don't necessarily need the official organization in order to make things happen. We are doing the right things right now. We don't have to commit ourselves to some organization in order to move ahead. There are some pro's but it is important to study the con's.
. There are some pro's but it is important to study the con's.
True
Thats all Im looking for, for it to be studied.
But you can be sure the negativity corps will be there to point out any real or imagined cons.
In order to get any funding, don't you have to make the Main St. Assoc. "official"?
If the majority of the problem fixing these old buildings is money, like the building owners are saying, and there is a way to get funding to help out, one would assume the building owners would be jumping at the chance to form this committee. But, you'd also assume they'd bond together to get bids for the windows together as well...
Can a petition or something of the sort be started to get the ball rolling?
You're all in this together, it's YOUR town, not just the business owners' town. When I come visit, it's as if the majority have lost their pride in their city and it makes me sad to see my home town in the state it's in. Not just with the downtown buildings, but with homeowners' homes as well. It doesn't cost a dime to clean up the garbage out of your yard and throw away the couches that are out on the front porch--just like it doesn't take any money to move the boxes of stuff away from the windows that still exist in the downtown buildings. It can be a great city, but like James has said before, it takes EVERYONE to help out and someone to take an initiative. Maybe if everyone started with their own home it would help.
In order to get any funding, don't you have to make the Main St. Assoc. "official"?
yes, but not that difficult
they did it in newkirk for crying out loud :)
>>>>>
one would assume the building owners would be jumping at the chance to form this committee.
you would think....
ive asked several people, most say they like the idea, but expect someone else to do it, or they say other people oppose it ..
why does other people opposing it even matter ..
i went to oklahoma city again yesterday .
every time i go there, im more impressed.
the attitude of the people is amazing.. and the city itself is really cool.
tennessee women were playing texas a&m for a trip to the final four .. i had my tennessee orange on,
lots of aggie fans,as well as OU fans supporting the big-12
ive been to several college games, but i dont think ive ever seen such nice fans..
more on that later.
lady vols won by the way, :) :)
Man, I wish I lived closer, I'd start the darn Association. What would it hurt?
Hopefully a resident will realize they wouldn't be in it alone if they stepped up. Probably once one person steps up, more would volunteer. Like you said, if the people of Newkirk can do it (what is there, like about 2000 residents total?), A.C. should certainly be able to!
Somebody needs to keep that Seibrant under wraps long enough to get something done. Funny that he wants more tax breaks. Hasn't he already had MORE than everybody else combined has gotten?
"You're all in this together, it's YOUR town, not just the business owners' town."
When was the last time someone came to your building and started doing some or any maint or repairs without your permission or commission?
While I am in agreement, something has to be done with the shambles some of these buildings, that business owners are using as tax writeoff's, the responsibility is theirs, not the community as a whole.
The community may mandate that the repairs be made, or in light of not bringing them into compliance, could then make the necessary repairs, and attatch that to their deeds, or declare it as public nusiance, and tear it down, all at public expense, with no light at the end of the tunnel.
While it may it may not be so, it appears on the face that we are dealing with people who own the buildings, and are in a situation that they do not need to rely on the citizens or consumers to make their livings, hence no repairs, stonewalling, draging their feet, crying in their beer, all to the end that NOTHING is going to be done, if it is left up to them to do it on their own.
Are there not any building codes in this town? Is it not true that if a building doesn't meet code they shut it down? I would think boarded up windows would be against any type of building code. Or, is that just for new buildings? Didn't know, thought I'd ask.
I think that is what this is all about. There have not been any codes about what to replace windows with. Hopefully the city will come up with something that makes sense and put it into the code.
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