The stats on the number of "violent acts" were interesting. I guess they raise more questions than they answer though, as posters have pointed out.
The schools had many more violent acts reported in the years 2003-2005 than they had last year. This year will not likely get to the level of 03-05, but may be higher than last year.
School officials say this is because of the way they reported. If two kids were in a fight, they counted it as two violent acts, when the state said it could be counted as one.
There is also the matter of in school, or out of school suspensions.
It just shows how the numbers can be manipulated. Statistics often mean what you want them to mean. They should not be the final arbiter of truth.
http://www.city-data.com/school/arkansas-city-high-school-ks.html
Here is a breakdown of violent acts per year at the high school.
Doesnt exactly sound like a war zone, but not heavenly either i guess.
2007 : 26
2006 : 21
2005 : 56
2004 : 73
2003 : 56
2002: 13
2001 : 37
Here are two more links to a lot of stats
one
two
It was an interesting debate, but I still think the debate is not focused properly. It is not so black and white. Some people want it to be awful, so they turn everything in that direction, and they accuse anyone who doesn't agree with covering it up. On the other side, people want to say there are no problems .
It isnt either or. The reality is, we are all imperfect human beings, and there are going to be issues and problems. Saying it doesnt exist wont help, but crying the sky is falling won't either.
The better debate would be - first, what needs to be done, and second, what can one person as an individual do about it. People need to be more involved in helping. Parents need to be more involved. But even if you are not a parent, you can still be involved.
There are a list of kids waiting for a big brother of big sister. That is a good program and it works.
As the old saying goes, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
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44 comments:
hmmm....what up with the drive by shooting? Any other details available, since the Traveler is stirring the pot here?
How come I read over and over in these blogs that the parents are always to blame? So if my kid was to get into trouble, its automatically my fault and I am a terrible parent because of it? Heck, I know some of the strictest parents and they're kids get in trouble and I know parents that do not a thing and the kids stay out of trouble? Me? Guess I am a in betweener. My kids wasn't(aren't) perfect. They have only been in trouble within the home, but we have lots of communication. Thats your ticket to know whats going on in that teenage brain.
"since the Traveler is stirring the pot here?"
I will say it again the blog is a source of entertainment! People put things on here just to see the reaction and start the fireworks.
Hold my beer and watch read this!
Parents are to blame, parents are stupid and misinformed and nieve!
One, it's "naive", two, parents are partially to blame, but there are SO many other influences in kid's lives other than parents, so parents can't possibly shoulder all the blame.
Why did it take so long for the drive-by shooting to make the paper (Newscow first) if it happened on Sunday? Don't you think people in that neighborhood deserve to know a little sooner than that? And what about follow up? (This goes for newscow too) No mention of the two cop cars that were there hauling someone away on Tuesday evening? Was it related? No more stray bullets flying around the neighborhood? or was it something else? In the internet age all we really need a paper for is to keep us informed on local happenings, not national news. If you fail on that level, then there will be no use for you at all, save garage sale listings and such. You will become nothing more than the penny saver if you don't start doing some actual reporting.
..what up with the drive by shooting? Any other details available, since the Traveler is stirring the pot here?
>>>
The cops were late in giving it to us. We do have to depend on them, unless we happened to hear the gunshots ourselves.
Someone reported that a gunshot was fired. There is no evidence that anything was hit - no destruction or property or injuries - and no one else in the neighborhood heard it.
I dont see any reason to make this into a big deal.
THe investigation continues .. we will follow up when something happens, like charges being filed.
>>>>>
How come I read over and over in these blogs that the parents are always to blame?
>>
I dont recall anyone saying that.
To 2nd poster: hush up. God, I hope you don't start drinking this early in the morning. Maybe you should check yourself there buddy. Now I know what is wrong with your line of thinking. Some of us would like to know and I am surprised it hadn't been mentioned already. If the AC police want to keep things in perspective for us(and be straightforward with the truth), they and the newspaper would let the public know a little more. How is a white vehicle a decent description, duh, that really narrows it down. Hey, my mother and father in law both have white vehicles. Do these people have any idea if it is a car, truck, suv? I would like to know if it was another bad apple or any type of gang relation. After all, my block is smack in the middle of 2 other questionable blocks.
Another thing..I am sick of statistics. They are not always accurate.
Third poster: So lets say my kid goes to school and gets in a fight. We teach them to follow rules and not fight, etc, etc. I don't fight, neither does my husband. How am I to partially blame? Sorry, but I am a little tired of hearing its only the parents.
I dont recall anyone saying that.
------------
I have, yours and other blogs
You have to wait for the police to contact you? Ever heard of a scanner?
Does everyone feel like we are losing a grip on our town? Or is it just the sensationalistic (is that even a word? if not, I got dibs) brand of journalism we are being subjected to?
Drive-by shootings? I had a car shot at in front of my house 15 years ago. Called the police, they made out the report and that was the end of it.
Do we know if it was really a shooting or some kids tossing firecrackers out the window of a passing car?
Back in the day, this would have been on the back page in the police notes, now it is on the front page in the OMG section of the paper.
I say if anyone sees any pistolaros running wild in the street, give Marshall Dillon, errr Chief Wallace a call, but not based on some sort of pop you heard sitting in your house. (Might have just been Ernest T. Bass throwin' rocks again.)
Do we know if it was really a shooting or some kids tossing firecrackers out the window of a passing car?>>>
no, thats why its still under investigation.
we did have it on the back page the day after it happened.. we didnt decide to do a small story until yesterday, which gave more information.
and it wasn't on the front page even then,
So, what do you know about the guy getting hauled off Tuesday evening from the same house?
we had that in the paper wednesday .
it was a domestic issue
From: The Hold my beer guy!
I rest my case! See how easy it is to start something here. spell a word or two wrong, and bammmm! you guys are on it.
Ok here we hold my beer again!
A herd of elephants stormed the city building demanding free water and peanuts. Rumor is the city has been buying peanuts at Walmart and holding out on the elephants!
way i heard it
the elephants didn't want to steenkin water
and that was the real issue.
they didn't want walmart peanuts either.
but it was water they were most upset about
I "herd" that the water prices were just too damn high, no matter what kind of animal is drinking it.
I really appreciate the Traveler and these blogs for reminding me why I need to move away from Ark City as soon as I possibly can.
You're welcome.
Need any help packing?
Anything we can do to help you get out soon as possible?
Hold my Beer! Oh and LIGHTEN UP FRANCIS!
The parents should always be RESPONSIBLE, not necessarily to blame. Dealing with the kids and doling out punishment is the parent's responsibility. Making sure the kids won't do it again is the parent's responsibility. Laying this off on anyone or anything else is a complete cop out.
Conversations on topics that happen in a vaccum can dilute the challenges of reality. When there are problems, much debate is given to the role of the parents. It is usually in a negative tone such as has been on this thread.
Responsibility and authority once were adjoined. Parents were the responsible parties. Parents also were THE authority in a child's life.
In modern times, the parents either provide or are arrested for failure to do so. Further, parents are to counsel and offer advice but not really administer discipline. That is left to the school administrators or the police.
I have lived to see the transition from the days when the strictest thing a police officer would do would be to load a kid up, take him home and explain to his parents what he had done. He walked away knowing that the parent would offer a stern deterrent.
Same with schools. They would make the phone call and leave a student in the office alone with a parent. Things usually got straightened out fairly directly.
Now, the kids have been processed and sent home - many times without having contacted the parent(s). Sometimes they have been processed through juvenile justice without any consult to parents. The system now tells the parents how to parent.
So, who exactly is responsible? The one who can feed or the ones who can discipline?
I think Charles has a point here. Parents don't want to be the bad guy. They want to be buddy-buddy with their children, and want someone else do the dirty work for them. But, they (the parents) don't want anybody messing w/ their kids, so they came to their kid's defense, saying you have no right to judge or punish their kid, and stick up for them. Makes them the hero in their kids eye.
I just remember when I was in HS in the 80s, our school still beleived in corperal punishment (but it starting to get phased out). The school had to contact parents before administering it, and many kids would have rather received the punishment without their parents knowing it, because they knew they would have gotten punished at home as well.
"...and many kids would have rather received the punishment without their parents knowing it, because they knew they would have gotten punished at home as well."
That tradition is not dead... just ask my kids. Since they started school they have known that if they get in trouble at school, then they will get in more trouble at home. They are both honor roll students and hardly ever get in even the slightest bit of trouble. (although they are not above being a little ornery at times).
The headline reads, "Drive-by shooting reported" If this may not be accurate, then don't write it that way. Tell your writers to put in "Possible," and you have a whole new meaning to the headline. The problem with authorities here, is they know more then they want to tell sometimes and then they wonder why people are so riled up sometimes. I know their is some things that shouldn't be told, but I have noticed other towns tend to let the public know enough so people will not worry so much. I see lots and lots of problems with the police force here as a whole and I know alot of people that are unhappy with the department.
Tell your writers to put in "Possible," and you have a whole new meaning to the headline.
>>
The headline was accurate, it said it was REPORTED.. which means possible .. not confirmed etc.
its just that the phrase has more than one meaning.
>>
but I have noticed other towns tend to let the public know enough so people will not worry so much.
>
Often times in ark city, people ignore the actual information.
I was accused of saying there were no problems at the high school when i put factual - confirmed - information out there.
Sooo... the police reported it, but they don't know if it really was gunshots. Nice.
Sorry editor, I never really thought of it that way. I wasn't meaning to directly attack the paper. I do still think the police department only gives half the story, though.
****, you can't even get details on your own cases when one asks. I know, been there, done that and still there.
Reading all of the recent news and blogs - I have two different reactions - one is I think it is very easy to be critical instead of giving people the benefit of the doubt. BUT, I also think that lots of folks involved in the "news" lately need to take a good look at there actions and think about if they really are acting ethically and for the good of the public and our community. This includes the school district, the hospital staff, the police department, and the local "news" people.
Also, we expect great things out of the school district and anything we are forced to pay taxes to - but we fail to really look at the town and think of reality. I would like to know what is considered a good wage in AC - and one that someone does not have to drive over 10 miles to get. Is $12 about the average "good" wage for a job in AC? I think that is so, and it is sad! Many of the children of the town are living in poverty, with very few real educational opportunities outside of the 8-3 school day. They can over come this - sure! - but it is hard.
Thank God for the local Junior College, the Arts Center, the Recreation Commission, the Library, local churches - anything that is trying to improve the life of our young people. The school district cannot do it all - look at the town! (yes, the town could be worse.)
look at the town! (yes, the town could be worse.)
God I hope not. I have lived here since the early 70's and with the exception of Summit Street downtown, this town has plummeted in so many ways.
I suppose you have to blame the local economy and the losses of Total, Rodeo, etc. The old neighborhoods on the south end of town were great back then but it really hurts to drive down there and see the decay that these blocks have turned into over the last 15 years or so.
I guess a lot of people either don't have pride in their property or are living in so much poverty that they have no choice.
Again, you could look at the report card BD provided and see that more than half of our students are poor. Yes, the $12/hour is a good wage in AC. No, that is not good money at all. Look at it like this, once upon a time it was not necessary for both parents to work to provide a roof over their children's heads. Nowadays, the kids are raised with less parental supervision and I think this is why we have problems like we do. Parents are too busy and strung out to deal with problems when they get home. Shoot, how many of us actually sit down every day to have a meal at a table and talk? $12/hour just doesn't cut it.
Based on the Free/Reduced Lunch numbers, which are almost 9% over state average, and a good indicator of poverty in a community, one can easily deduce that over half the kids in AC are living below the poverty level.
Poverty breeds the kind of problems we are experiencing as a community. It is a major risk factor, and one of the leading indicators of future success, or lack therof. Poverty leads to lower test scores, higher teen birth rates, discipline problems at school... It is an endless cycle, and a difficult one to break. break the cycle, cure the problem. Poverty leads to young single mothers without enough income to support their kids, absent fathers, drug and alchohol abuse...Children living in unsafe conditions, with little support or supervision. Think these parents are helping with homework? Providing 3 meals a day? Think these children even have a bed to sleep in? Guess again.
But, can we blame the children? Do we say too bad, so sad, your parents suck, but that's your problem. Should the kids be punished because their parents are unable to parent?
People cry for the parents to be more responsible, but how can they, they don't have the ability to be. Charles asked, "So, who exactly is responsible? The one who can feed or the ones who can discipline?" Often times, parents are able to do neither.
Parents are to blame, parents are stupid and misinformed and nieve!
December 11, 2008 7:16 AM
Two words for ya: Dumb Ass!!
@2:51 PM
My thoughts exactly. Thank you.
76% of statistics are wrong 84% of the time or is it 89% are wrong 48% of the time? Oh heck I don't know- keep shootin' em' at me though!!
better watch the peanuts from wal-mart- they might have mexican scorpions in them- or was that the watermelons? oh well, whatever it is it was imported you can bet on that!
Mr. Hold My Beer- we understand- drunks can't spell they just ramble on and on and on and on and on and on......
Sooo... the police reported it, but they don't know if it really was gunshots. Nice.
>>
youre making it in to something it isnt.
it was reported, and that was the news ...
whether it happened ... is still under investigation.
should they have waited until they made a determination ?
then youd say why didnt they tell us ?
Sorry editor, I never really thought of it that way. I wasn't meaning to directly attack the paper. I do still think the police department only gives half the story, though.
>>
True .. and what makes them look best.
Sooo... the police reported it, but they don't know if it really was gunshots. Nice.
>>
youre making it in to something it isnt.
it was reported, and that was the news ...
whether it happened ... is still under investigation.
should they have waited until they made a determination ?
then youd say why didnt they tell us ?
Sorry editor, I never really thought of it that way. I wasn't meaning to directly attack the paper. I do still think the police department only gives half the story, though.
>>
True .. and what makes them look best.
"Do we know if it was really a shooting or some kids tossing firecrackers out the window of a passing car?"
Do ya think? If it was firecrackers, most likely they would find pieces of it?
hey James...maybe they were shooting a pop gun like Elmer Fudd.
More interesting statistics from
http://www.city-data.com/school/arkansas-city-middle-school-ks.html
2007 Violence Statistics:
Violence Against Students (Students) : 1
2006 Violence Statistics:
Violence Against Students (Students) : 3
2005 Violence Statistics:
Violence Against Students (Students) : 92
2004 Violence Statistics:
Violence Against Students (Students) : 74
Does anyone believe the violence rates went from 92, to 3, to 1 in the course of 2 years, no matter how they were reporting the numbers?
Seriously.
1 violent act in all of 2007?
Oh, those figures were for the Middle School.
Or a bb gun, or maybe it was a voice impersonater or what ever they are called! Someone drove pass and said pop real loud!
Does anyone believe the violence rates went from 92, to 3, to 1 in the course of 2 years, no matter how they were reporting the numbers?
>>>
Does sound strange.
Maybe the definition changed, and they changed the way they reported it.
So we know there is something that doesnt meet the eye here, but im no sure that means there is a coverup.
what would the alarmist say if it went the other direction.
i may look into it and try to find out what the real deal is.
67% of statistics are wrong 92% of the time or is it 78% are wrong 84% of the time? Oh heck I don't know- keep shootin' em' at me though!!
They're are lying all the time, you know, I know it, they know it. Ha!Ha! Just kidding.
Who's doing the reporting?
Perhaps we may be making it look much better than it is. Maybe not...
dunno.
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