Whatever happened to debate?
There are always going to be differences of opinion, and often that is a good thing.
It just seems our culture has gone to the point of divisiveness, seeking power or to be right, at the cost of progress.
It's the same in politics at every level.
At the presidential level. Hillary and Obama are fighting for the dem. nomination. DO we hear debate about issues that affect us?
No, we are hearing about shenanigans over old votes in Florida and Michigan, and who said what and who is associated with who.
At the local level. It is about the same. There are the "3 amigos" and the "other two guys" (We need a name for them too.) There are issues in Ark City. But, we are not hearing discussion about issues that need dealing with.
We are hearing about how bad which side is and who is doing what that they shouldn't etc.
It is part of the local negativity. But also, I think it is a reflection of our culture, both locally and nationally. We as a people are not interested in progress. We just want power.
THIS is the problem.
The CM staying or leaving, the 3 amigos, windows ... whatever, is not the problem.
The problem is that there are few people with vision to rise above politics and lead.
There will always be issues to debate and differences of opinion. I think we should step back and ask how any of the debates are moving us forward.
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35 comments:
I agree. I only pray that it 'can' happen here.
We 'need' progress. And a lot of us want 'progress'.
Thanks for being a voice for the city JJ.
;)
I think the democratic debate and our local one are just proof that government has become too big. They are trying to micro-manage it's citizens and businesses. Maybe it's time they cut the apron strings and let the people grow up! All they have done is created a welfare state which is out of control. Shoot, the government bodies can not even manage themselves! Kind of reminds me of some stressed out parents with spoiled rotten kids who get divorced because they "can't take it anymore!"
You have made a good point!
;)
BTW:
As for this national debate 'thingy' haha
Power hungry people... the vote won't count... ooops, now I 'need' them to be counted.
(now that's funny)
But locally, some of this is just a 'big mess'. BOUNTY-- ON AISLE 3!
I'm frustrated with the dog. It just won't hunt. I take it out to an easy covey, and it just sits there.
There is nothing you can do to get it to flush out the birds where we can bag some. When it gets around other skilled dogs who do know how to hunt, it snaps and bites at them and they run away.
It surrounds itself with other worthless dogs that get protective when you try to put them in the truck so you can use hunter dogs.
It is really headstrong, and won't pay any attention to what we want and continually screws up everything we want to do.
It is hard to get rid of him, because some of the neighbors like the way he looks, but they don't have to take him hunting.
We have to get rid of him. It is the only thing that makes sense.
That dog won't hunt.
How do you debate with people who pride themselves on opinions, not on facts? It seems most leaders go defensive as soon as you attack their opinions. Opinions are great, but they must be changed to fit the facts, not the other way around. We see it here in Ark City as well as all the way up the hill to the President. They are hard headed but not ignorant. They get defensive and have to stand their ground on an illegitimate point because they have taken a stance and are afraid to reverse it in the light of facts. Nobody is perfect. When we have someone that is willing to say, "I though I had it, but now that I know the facts things are different" we will have someone who is willing to work for US, not for themselves.
It seems most leaders go defensive as soon as you attack their opinions.
THis is a good point
but sometimes i think people attack the leaders instead of their opinions.
we do need to separate the two.
maybe we could do that when we want to talk about opinions of leaders.
Is this an opinion blog, or am I in the wrong place?
absolutely for opinions! But if opinion is contrary to fact, it is no longer an opinion. It is an untruth. Not a lie, it just has no place in reality.
On the other hand if an opinion is based on and fits the facts that gives us a direction to move forward to see if it might work or not.
On the other hand if an opinion is based on and fits the facts that gives us a direction to move forward to see if it might work or not.
>>>
In the modern era, it seems that facts are not all that important to forming opinions.
There was a study that showed most people would form opinions of reality based more on how they feel than on physical evidence.
Most people think they are right, and the make the facts fit their opinion ...
It is hard to sort out :)
So, what are the issues here? Lowes? I, personally, do not get that one. If Lowe's wants to come to AC, why are they having to get our permission or help? I think it's a shame that our government has come to that! Why can't capitalism just take care of itself? Why the need for government intervention?
Windows and parking in yards? I think it's a property owner's rights to do as they want. None of government's business! However, if you think the neighbor's place looks like cr*&, tell them! You have a right to an opinion.
Speak another language? That's ok! I think you have a right to speak whatever language you want, especially in your own home or personal business. However, do not think we are going to accomodate you if we do not.
You want to fix up the downtown? Then, let the business owners get together and make it happen on their own. Why does the city need to be involved?
Seat belt laws? Why do we need laws for this? If you want to wreck and die, be my guest! I appreciate the government awareness, though. I think it's great that they run studies and put the info out there for us. However, we do not need to be babysat. The police have better things to worry about! (I know, not a commission issue. This one just bugs the heck out of me, so I threw it in.)
Streets falling apart? Now this is something the city politicians should be working on! Really, I think they make the job harder than it should be. Why not set up boards or committee's to help citizens with the other stuff? I.E. Mainstreet Association, visitors bureau, welcoming committee's, etc.
The last poster should run for commission.
I think you are confusing city with government. The people of the city chose to creat a government to protect everyone's rights.
Yes on person should be able to play music as loud as they like, but Yes, their neighbor should not have to be subjected to it. Which ones rights are more important?
Yes a person should be allowed to let their weeds grow 4 feet high and park in the front yards. But it does affect the neighbors property values if they should choose to sell. Whose rights are more important?
Yes a homeowner should be able to raise livestock on his own property. Yes, the neighbors should not have to put up with the noise and smell and runoff. Whose rights are more important?
The city created a government to settle these things. If you choose to do otherwise you should move a short distance away outside of the city. The government is not here to protect the rights of ONE individual, it is here to protect the rights of ALL individuals.
bull crud,,government is not what it was ten years ago,, government if full of corruption..
Even right here in Arkansas city,,,, if you doubt that, your head is in the sand
But it does affect the neighbors property values if they should choose to sell. Whose rights are more important?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Really? Why do you think one person has more rights than the next?
Look, I do not choose to let my yard go or park my car next to my front porch. However, I do not feel like I have a right to tell someone else they can not. I get disgusted with people's ways, but what makes me have more constitutional rights than they do? Just because I choose to mow, park in a driveway and replace my windows with glass instead of plywood?
I DO have a right to move! I even have a right to ask my neighbor if their mower is broken. Maybe they need help, or maybe they just need to know their neighbor's are disgusted. I think that beats peaking behind the curtains while calling them in to the city. What's wrong with getting to know your neighbors?
One time I worked the night shift (technical job) in a local factory with no shift supervisor. Everyone got along great. Machines ran great. Everyone worked together as a team, and no one took a break until everyone was caught up. Why? Because if you did, you would hear about it from your co-workers. We all wanted their respect (and help when we were the ones who needed it). Also, we had pride in a job well done. You see, we had only ourselves to answer to if things went south. Then, one day the company brought in a man from out of state to run the show. He had lost his job in Texas and the company was relocating him. Do you know what happened? The teamwork came to a screaching halt! No one did anything until the supervisor told them to. They just sat in the breakroom waiting their orders. Machine downtime climbed through the roof and we all became disgusted with each other and hated our jobs.
I just feel like the same applies to our city. Perhaps, the people are just sitting around on their duffs waiting for the government to make them take care of things. If they had to answer to their peers, maybe it would already be done?
you may be onto something there.
Why did the new supervisor make a difference, what did he do, or not do?
you may be onto something there.
Why did the new supervisor make a difference, what did he do, or not do?
Quite simple. He came in and began micro-managing everything we did. We were not allowed to make decisions or do things on our own. We had to wait for him to say "jump". Funny thing is, he just stressed himself out all over the place.
Then, when he found out that some were harder to motivate than others... he took all of the work and put it on the few who were easier to work with. The rest sat in the break room and laughed about it. In an attempt to manage his crew, all he did was tear it apart. The ones doing all of the work eventually quit him. When they couldn't take it anymore, they just sat down like stubborn mules. A few literally walked out the door. Soooo, all he was left with was a crew which did not want to do anything at all without threats of reprimand.
I think the role of a "leader" or "supervisor" is not to follow their people around making sure they are doing their job. If one has truely managed a "shift" or "community" well, they only need to exist for support. Their role would be to ensure the people have the information and resources to get the job done in a correct and efficient manner.
One example I can think of right away is the "tree dump". This is a great public service to the community which helps city dwellers to get their yards cleaned up without dumping their debris in ditches or on someone else's property.
That does sound a lot like the city. Everyone wants the government to fix everything. The government/supervisor tries to do their best but they have a hard time getting anywhere while the team/citizens sit on their butts and complain. There probably was a time when the citizens were productive team members. I can tell you the solution is NOT more places for the duff-sitters to shop. More and better jobs. Better pay. Less griping. More doing. If groups spent more time working together instead of against each other. Government is definitely NOT the problem in this scenario. But if they don't have any support from the team they won't get anywhere.
There was a father with two sons who he adored, and when his time came to pass he left each son half of his wealth.
This was no small matter for in his life the father had acquired much wealth and power, the village in which he lived depended on this great man for his wise guidance. The two sons, Amigo and Bobblehead (not their real names) inherited not only the father's wealth but his responsibility as well. The village looked upon to continue to guide and nurture the villagers.
However soon after their father's passing the two sons started quibbling and arguing amongst themselves. There was not one simple thing they could agree on. The constant bickering spilled over onto the village. Lacking wise guidance the villagers themselves began to quarrel. The village fell into disarray, children went hungry, clothed in rags, and the homes of the village began to decay.
Until one day Bobble and Amigo decided they had enough and divided the village in half. Half the citizens that supported Amigo went with him to a far off town and open a cannery to provide income.
The other half of the villagers remained with bobble and they started a factory making can openers.
All was not well, for the farms had been neglected at the village from all the bickering, and soon there was a major food shortage in the village.
At the town of Amigo a strange illness was spreading about the town causing much death and suffering. The only cure was a herb that grew only in the village of Bobble.
So the town of Amigo and the town of Bobble both faced sickness and death. Yet each could help the other prosper if they were to work together for the common good.
The village of Bobble sent herbs to Amigo and the people regained their health. In return the town of Amigo sent cans of food to Bobble.
The Bobblelonians were grateful for the food and they quickly raced to the can opener factory. Once there they each got a can and a can opener and prepared to feast.
WA-WHOOOOOOOOOM the Amigos had cleverly sent cans of Whoop-Ass to the Bobbles, and the blast blew out every window in town. So the Bobbles were to poor to buy new windows and had to use plywood and tin. All the other towns laughed at him and superman even flew by once just to stop and laugh also. The End
Maybe you have something there. If people quit asking and demanding the city to take care of their problems the city wouldn't have to make rules to keep things straight. Unfortunately, though you believe you deserve your personal rights, there are probably many of your neighbors who are certain their rights are more important. How should the city respond to this mix of requests and demands from the people? Pick and choose who they should listen too? They can't win. They can't satisfy the populace.
Let the populace satisfy themselves. Cut those apron strings. Do not pick and choose which of our "children" to accomodate or grant "rights" to.
Call off the divorce! Put the marriage back together and lead the kids by example. Who knows, one day they might just leave the nest and soar to greatness!
The last thing we need is a custody battle while trying to figure out who pays the "child support".
One for all and all for one.
I'm confused. Who does the commission work for?
Haven't you been paying attention, the commission works for Curtis Eaton and his lawyer. jeez.
I liked the bobble and amigo story until the last paragraph. The last paragraph really didn't fit the rest of the text. I was thinking the moral of the story would be one of those can't we all work together and get along deals. That would have been a good ending and the right direction. The commission works for ALL the people. Not just the powerful.
I liked the bobble and amigo story until the last paragraph. The last paragraph really didn't fit the rest of the text. I was thinking the moral of the story would be one of those can't we all work together and get along deals. That would have been a good ending and the right direction. The commission works for ALL the people. Not just the powerful.
If that is the case then maybe this needs further investigation????
You mean like the secret handshake at the ACI meetings?
I went to one of those early last year. It was only the third time (and last) for me to attend. It was of interest to find that this meeting was different than the other two. Two things happened that will never be forgotten.
At one time a certain individual who you could say was "in charge" and appeared to speak for the others proclaimed that the downtown is dead. This offended me greatly but I said nothing as it would have been inappropriate since yours truly is not in the inner circle. When there was hearty agreement I knew it was the right decision to keep quiet.
I am not totally sure if they believed this or not when they said it but I suspect that they did. Otherwise it could have just been an excuse for moving the town out north and abandoning the downtown as part of the vision they have for our future. It seems suspect to me that the land they own is also out north. This turned my stomach needless to say.
The other agenda that did not at all sit well was when they were plotting on how to influence the selection of the new manager. They gave indication they wanted to see someone who would allow them to continue the influence they had in the prior administration. I could scarcely believe this was happening and again said nothing.
I am telling you this group is building kingdoms and not just buildings! I do not know how deeply this thinking goes to the bank itself but there is a close association I can tell you! Go to their meetings and see for yourself. I highly doubt if they would invite a newspaper representative to be in attendance!
You're right,
It's pretty amazing that they would want to hire someone who would influence growth.
The downtown isn't dead, but it is full. There is no room for anything large. There is no room for anything but a few small shops to be added. If this town is to grow it will have to look outwards.
It's common sense, but you can be afraid of that too!
Tear down the building Pat is in and replace it with a new building. Either that or gut it and replace the roof.
The downtown is NOT full. It just needs investment. Almost every upper floor could be put to use. Many buildings just need new roofs and gutted interiors. This is often less expensive than starting new. Otherwise you would have seen the old Dairy Queen leveled completely instead of partially reutilized the way Mr. Weaver used it for his new sonic.
The biggest complaint about downtown growth is the parking issue. This too can be resolved. There are other ways around the barn. How much is a parking garage. ACI has said they have been looking for some investment in the downtown. This could be part of that and it would be a welcome breath of fresh air. Maybe they could get more support for their initiatives out north if it looked like they were trying to do that without depleting the viability of the downtown.
Both/And is a great scenario where everyone wins.
Great ideas, but you're spending a LOT of other people's money. Not that it isn't a good idea, but would it every pay for itself?
How often have you seen business upstairs outside of a mall with escalators? How large would the building be even if gutted? Unless of course you evict the businesses that are still there and operating.
We could bring back larger stores like Sears and Penneys and others, but they don't fit in little buildings anymore. It's a different world out there.
Before we spend huge amounts of money on rebuilding maybe we should look to see if the building could be used after they are remodeled.
I once visited a really cool town with stores upstairs. They had a covered balcony which connected the upstairs store fronts. Some of them had outdoor dining up top. I loved it!
we need people to just start doing stuff.
starting small businesses
starting small projects
that would bring about meaningful change.
we're probably not going to get half a million dollars to spend on major improvements, and even if we did, then we would argue over what to do with it.
so start small
just do something and see what happens.
I think it is really cool when stores have an upstairs or downstairs, the only problem I see, is that they are not handicap accessible.
elevators don't cost much. I can have put in a handicap accessible one for $25,000 if it is only going up one floor.
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