City commissioners gave the go-ahead to hospital officials to pursue building a new hospital at the Patterson Park site two miles north of Arkansas City at their regular meeting Tuesday.
It is now up to hospital officials to convince the public to pass a half-cent sales tax that would help finance the hospital.
Hospital officials say they have most of the money needed to build a new hospital but need the sales tax money to get them "over the top." Having that extra money would help them get loans and help them get through the first two years, hospital marketing director Clayton Pappan said.
The city will now have to put the sales tax initiative on the ballot for November. The language of that proposal will be taken up at the next meeting.
Hospital officials will be holding several meetings over the next two months to make their case before the public.
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79 comments:
how long would the sales tax hike be in effect? If it is open ended, then I will vote no automatically.
10 years. Unless they get the money they need sooner. The hospital people are saying they think they can get it before the 10 years are up.
Any sales tax has to have an ending date.
The city is also going to be asking for a half-cent sales tax for street repairs.
that would be a five-year deal.
I think we will be able to vote on them separately.
And how high will the additional tax be? The usual 1/2 a cent?
This blows my mind. But, I'm sure AC will vote it all in. If they'll vote in for a new football stadium, they'll say yes to anything.
Will the citizens be able to vote for the location and the sales tax separately? I would be willing to vote yes to the sales tax but NO to the location.
By the way the people did not vote only for a football stadium it was part of an overall bond issue to improve all schools in the district. It wasn't two separate items.
They will not allow us to pick the location, so you have to choose. If this doesn't pass, it will be because of the location they have forced on us for whatever reason.
I hear rumor that there is financial gain to be had by putting it on the Patterson property, but I don't 1know by who or how. Anyone have any insight?
that is a great question about the financial gain. I have been looking at that with a great deal of scrutiny. I have been afraid this will turn into a pat my back and I yours thing or good ol boy network enrichment deal.
That is THE BEST THING that I can see about the financing structure and who owns the property. since this is paid for by the taxpayers, no one is getting personally enriched. if they doctors owned the deal then I would think this was a shady situation aimed at trying to convert public dollars to some kind of private benefit.
I just do not see that and will keep my eyes open because I do not trust as a rule. however if you look at WHO is on the hospital board there is NO WAY they could all be in league with one another for the enrichment of any special interest other than the benefit of the citizens they serve.
my2cents
I wonder how many people will still say take me to Winfield or get me to wichita Does that short stop or drive by hurt or help the financial growth for the future. I still think before most local residents use the faciality with great confidence public fears are going to have to be addressed about the care or quality of care you get here. For me I just would rather deal with someone who wants to solve a medical problem than treat one.
Put a band-aid on me and keep heading north. I want a real chance.
JJ if you want modify this or do not print this comment, but at least ypu will know from some one treating and curing medical problems are different
I say NO! until we can keep a local doctor on duty each weekend AT the hospital not at the ball park or home or golfing waiting for a call. The first thing anyone want is someone there who has good chance in saving a life. And that will not happen if the doctor has to drive across ice and haevy traffic to get to you.
NO! NO! NO!
I heard a good one tonight. I heard that Applebees and Lowe's want to build next to the hospital. Gossip is that this is why they need so much acreage for their building site.
I heard a good one tonight. I heard that Applebees and Lowe's want to build next to the hospital. Gossip is that this is why they need so much acreage for their building site.
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That is a good one.
But, they will have to buy the materials somewhere, so a new lowe's would be real handy for that.
AND construction workers gotta eat, so .... might just work :)
Only problem would be timing. Youd have to have the lowes in place before you started the hospital.
Id say if they dont break ground on the new lowes by the end of the year, it wont work.
HOw's that for starting a rumor ?
lol.
Yeah, let's get THAT argument going again. No thanks.
It seems from the digging I have done that the Pattersons had no heirs, and left the land to the hospital group to build on, as well as leaving some money to the Presbyterian Manor.
So the land is basically free, but the taxpayers will be footing the bill for the utilities to be ran out to it. One of the other blogs had a huge amount to run the utilities, and if that were true, wouldn't it be more cost effective to buy closer to town, near Skyline Road perhaps, and pay much less to run the utilities?
If I'm going to have to drive to Strother, I might as well drive ten more minutes to Winfield hospital, where the care is better.
There does seem to be a deep level of mistrust. Ive only been here a few years, so I dont know all the background.
But thats also true everywhere I have lived, but I think there is more mistrust here than other places.
The thing is. If the hospital people were to change to "site B" ... would the Patterson opponents support that, or would they just then start criticizing "site B"
I have heard great things about the care you get at ark city hospital.
On the objection to there not being a doc on duty on the weekends. They say the new facility would have that, 24-7 and a surgeon on duty as well
Something that has gotten my attention. Two of the three amigos, Scott and Mell, have both changed their minds in recent months.
Mell is on the hospital board, and while on there, has done a 180, going from being even against a new hospital period, to being for the one in the new location.
Scott has gone from being against it to being in total support.
He doesnt like the patterson location, but thinks it is what will work.
Now dont say they were paid off. I really dont think they were, but i can just hear the naysayer wheels-a-turning.
But it is interesting that they changed their minds.
I can tell you, from listening in to work session talks, that there has been a metamorphosis of opinion among the commissioners.
The others were not all that much behind it before, even though they were not blatantly opposing it.
It just appears that the more they looked into it, the more they got convinced.
So Id suggest people keep looking, keep listening, keep questioning.
her blogs had a huge amount to run the utilities, and if that were true, wouldn't it be more cost effective to buy closer to town, near Skyline Road perhaps, and pay much less to run the utilities?
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Yes, and you would save that money. BUT, you wouldnt be able to expand like they want to, and you would have to buy the land.
Its kind of a tradoff.
Free land further away but more costly to get utilities.,
or buy land and get utilities put in cheaper...
The land might cost more, i dont know
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If I'm going to have to drive to Strother, I might as well drive ten more minutes to Winfield hospital, where the care is better.
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Well, the winfield hospital doesnt have nearly the stuff available that the current ark city hospital has.
Its a lower level of facility.
Ive really heard more people who have actually stayed there, say the AC hospital is very good....
I hope i dont ever find out :)
JJ, Have you every had to depend on this current hospital operation for care? Havn't completed the research yet, but as the City owns the land, don't think they can building any "commercial" ventures on the site. Speciality doctors are going to locate where the patient numbers are high and where there are amenitys for their familys. Do we meet either of those? The hospitals presentation last night, seemed to suggest "My Way or the Highway" I guess I'll have to remain a Naysayer.
I guess I'll have to remain a Naysayer.
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There is nothing wrong with questioning and disagreeing. Thats not naysaying.
I do think there are people who would object no matter what anyone did. A free hospital and a million dollars for every resident, as well as free lunches and ice cream ... theyd object im sure.
The ice cream is a conspiracy by dentists ....
BUT
I have heard people say the care is good at the ark city hospital. Ive never been a patient there.
I dont think the city owns the land. So there could be some commercial development on it.
They feel a new facility will be a drawing card for speciality doctors and such. They did get a surgeon.
You have to start somewhere.
If it works, it will help the whole community.
So we shall see.
There are still some questions the hospital folks need to address.
I spoke with a gynacologist from Wichita once about my mistrust for AC doctor's and the hospital. You see, being a small town girl, I have heard many ugly stories about death and mistakes. However, she was quick to point out that those things happen in all hospitals. You just do not hear about them in Wichita because it's not a small town. She's probably right. I can not help but worry, though. I guess I, like the doctors, am only human.
A small town hospital has a real purpose. It should know its purpose and build to its strengths.
If you need triage after a car wreck, or to get stabilized after a heart attack or stroke, then that is what a local hospital can do best that no other care provider can do. Once they save your life and can transport to a real hospital, then do it.
Having a small town surgeon cutting on you when he rarely does surgery is a horrible idea, and you don't have to look too far to see the results.
People in town walk around with zippers that would have never happened with more skilled docs.
Leave the specialty stuff to the big cities, ie, cancer, surgery, definitely endocrinology (first hand experience) and anything complicated.
My mother was horribly disfigured by a local doc many years ago and I have an unnecessary (although fairly minor) side symptom of a botched surgery at the AC Hospital. I'll have it forever.
The best docs go where the best offers and big salaries are. Ark City gets what's left.
You need something important? Go to OKC. Wichita is not much better.
I know the feeling. My wife was misdiagnosed by a local doctor for over a month before we sought a second opinion and found out she had cancer. The first doctor (at the AC clinic) would have (and should have) caught it if he'd only done a simple chest x-ray. She died from a cancer that has a survival rate of 85 to 90 percent. It may have been different had she been diagnosed correctly the first time. She was in her late 20's.
"Yes, and you would save that money. BUT, you wouldnt be able to expand like they want to"
I really don't understand the expansion argument. Expand for a shrinking population? What are the explanation plans and how much do they cost? What needs are being met by the speculative future expansion that trump the overall economic needs of the city and the budget of the project? An oncology center for how many patients? (FYI, both of my parents have had very rare forms of cancer so we would have had to go outside of AC regardless of a new hospital)
A wellness center 2 miles outside of the city limits when the only way to get there is to drive on a 70 MPH highway? It seems you would have more wellness if people would drive less and walk more...
"They feel a new facility will be a drawing card for speciality doctors and such. They did get a surgeon."
Didn't the surgeon grow up here? It is kind of a stretch to say the recruited him.
I really have a hard time believing that the population of Cowley County can support having multiple specialty doctors.
A wellness center 2 miles outside of the city limits when the only way to get there is to drive on a 70 MPH highway? It seems you would have more wellness if people would drive less and walk more...
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Yes, we would be healthier as a society if we all walked more and drove less, and would be happier too.
But how many people walk to the hospital now?
Depends on where you are, but in some areas of arkansas city, the site two miles north might be closer than downtown?
I'm curious to see how many doctors will NOT move their offices closer to the new hospital location. I wonder if low-income families will have to make that drive when their kids are sick and just need antibiotics. How many will not be able to make it?
If you do not have a vehicle, it may be harder to catch a ride with someone to the clinic if it's located outside of town and out of the way. Also, gas prices could influence your decision on whether to take your kid in.
It may be hard for some to understand, but when you are broke, you have to consider these things.
Will the AC clinic remain in AC?
Residents of Ark City will get to make the decision on the new hospital by voting on the proposed sales tax.
Instead of guessing, go to the 8 scheduled meetings. Ask questions. Make an informed decision rather than guessing and listening to rumors and gossip.
Sept. 9th at 9:30 am – SCKRMC Auxiliary Meeting
Sept 22nd at 6:30 pm – Presbyterian Manor
Sept 25th at 11:00 am – Ark City Senior Center
Sept 30th at 7:00 pm – Brown Center/Wright Room
Oct 2nd at 10:00 am – Ambassadors Coffee
Oct 9th at 7:00 pm – Ark City Senior Center
Oct 22nd at 12 Noon – Soroptimist Meeting
Oct 30th at 7:00 pm – Brown Center/Booth outside of Economic Forum Meeting
Patrick McDonald
f you do not have a vehicle, it may be harder to catch a ride with someone to the clinic if it's located outside of town and out of the way. Also, gas prices could influence your decision on whether to take your kid in.
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How do they get to the hospital now?
Again I ask, how many people walk to it now?
I agree with Patrick.
go to the meetings, ask questions, become informed
then vote your conviction
I'd rather people get information directly, but at the commission meeting the hospital brought up providing a service to bring people to the hospital and take them home. Go to the meetings and ask for details! Decide what is best for you, but make it an informed decision.
Patrick McDonald
Mr. McDonald,
At those meetings will the hospital board and/or the city commission give the negative side of having a hospital outside the city limits or will it be all fluff? At these meetings will they be able to guarantee speciality doctors WILL come to the area? Will the hospital be able to guarantee better care? (I know first hand the ER sucks) Will they explain why the need for the sales tax for operating expenses when they are operating now without it?
will the hospital board and/or the city commission give the negative side of having a hospital outside the city limits or will it be all fluff?
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I dont think the city will be presenting it.
Obviously the hospital board is going to present its side of the story, and make its case.
There are positives and negatives to everything, and whats a positive or a negative isnt even the same for everyone.
Just realize that they are making their case. Just because they are making their case, doesnt mean they are lying.
You can still investigate what they say.
I still say not many people walk to the hospital now. Im not sure that the drive would be further as far as time is concerned?
JJ, you've got to stop taking vacations. August 15, 2008, commission meeting, city accepts deed from Covista Group to the Patterson property [68 acres]. There is a resolution on this transaction.
I didn't mean to say there is negative but if there is a negative will they discuss it? I wasn't sure if since the city commission approved the move and to put the sales tax issue on the ballet if they would be making any presentations. It would seem logical that only the hospital will be making a case. However, I get tired of one sided issues. It would be nice if someone told all sides of an issue not just pull items they want to be known.
I have no doubt there is a need for a new hospital. I'm just buying the need to build outside the city limits and also there is no guarantee of speciality doctors coming to the hospital. I'm curious how they can guarantee this will happen. this is not "field of dreams" "build it and they will come"
It's my understanding the old highway would be used instead of highway 77, if this is true at some point that old narrow road will need work done to it to accomodate the extra traffic. Who will pick up the tab for that?
Also I hope there is an explaination of why the need for the sales tax for operating capital when the hospital is already making ends meet the way it is now.
I think this blog is an excellent way to brainstorm and gather questions to be asked at the meetings. It's a good way to get "our ducks in a row".
When I was questioning abilities to get to the new proposed site for low income families, I was not refering to the hospital. I can see that I did not explain myself very well. From what I have read, they plan to build clinics around the new hospital. I am curious to know if all the doctors will move their offices out there instead of keeping them in town. I'm not thinking about life threatening situations, but rather day to day doctor visits.
On Sep 4, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Anonymous wrote:
I didn't mean to say there is negative but if there is a negative will they discuss it?
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Thats a good question, and yall have mentioned some other good questions as well.
THese are the questions that need to be taken to the meetings and see how they are answered.
THey will be presenting their case, and it will be biased in their favor, ... to me, how they answer the questions will mean a lot.
Its not actually on the ballot yet, but likely will be. I believe the city will put it there at their next meeting.
Let the hospital people do their presentation ... we all know its going to be slanted . and that kinda levels the playing field.
See if they convince you or not ?
This is their first choice. but its not a done deal.
The tax increase is to be for 10 max The hospital board says it could be taken off sooner if they meet there goal. How will be making the call on when to stop the tax and make sure we won't be padding to much money in the hospitals favor?
Naysayer... you do realize this hospital they are planning on building "way out there" is about 20 minutes closer on average than most people have to go when they live in bigger cities, right?
(((Naysayer... you do realize this hospital they are planning on building "way out there" is about 20 minutes closer on average than most people have to go when they live in bigger cities, right?)))
Here we go again with the naysayer words,,,, give the guy a opertunity to make a statement on how he feels without calling him names, and point is we do not live in a bigger city,, and in bigger cities they do not build hospitals 2 miles out of town, they are centralised,, there is a big differance between being a naysayer and thinking like an inteligent person, which you my friend have not mastered
It doesn't really matter where the location of the hospital is. The poor or uninsured will continue to get the usual band aide treatment. Go to the emergency room, wait for a hour or more and then if you are lucky, you see a medical person and get the least amount of treatment and a 500 to 1500 bill for the fine service. No matter where the hospital is put, the uninsured and poor must be treated to the best of the medical community's ability.
To answer a few simple questions.
The sales tax would be used to build a new hospital, not for operational cost. You are correct, the hospital has operating capital. However we can not mortgage all of the operating capital to build the new hospital as the old hospital must keep running while we build the new one.
There is to be a medical office building next to the new hospital. Not for the local doctors. None of us are planning on moving, with the exception of the new surgeon, who yes was RECRUITED and thought we would be in the new hospital before he got here. By the way, he does 4 to 8 surgeries a day (more than many big city general surgeons). The medical office building will house administration, outpatient physical therapy and those specialist we are so sure will come. We are sure because we've been talking to them for years. Can we name them? No, because no doctor wants to let his partners or hospital know he is looking elsewhere. The reason they are interested is these physicians see the potential of a central hospital that attracts from the whole area. It would benefit us all.
The need for room to expand, is in part due to the change in medical care. 20 years ago any procedure, even birth, landed you in the hospital for at least a week, if not a month. Now everything happens outside the hospital and your stay is short and recovery finishes in outpatient settings, such as physical therapy, cancer centers, dialysis centers. None of these are planned now, but we assume that they or similar structures will be wanted and needed in the future and would like to plan for a whole campus, thus the need for all the land.
There is no one to gain financially from the Patterson property. We have looked at the issue for 10 years from every angle you can imagine and everything points to the best chance for a prosperous top notch hospital that will grow and bring in the best doctors (believe it or not some of the best doctors WANT to raise their kids in small towns and care for patients they know, not everything is about money!)is at the Patterson property. If you give the hospital the chance at the meetings to inform you of the last 10 years of work, you will agree.
Thank you for letting me rant. We care about this town because we live and raise our kids here. We too will have to drive (everyday!).
We too have parents, siblings,spouses and small children who will need this hospital. There is no plan B for a new hospital, that I know of, we have already exhausted every other plan. Please go to the meetings and consider this carefully.
Thanks Dr. Green,well thought out post.
as for centralizing, most bigger cities are wastelands in their downtowns or center parts, unless they have done a huge renewal project like OKC has.
I believe most are built in the suburbs now...
But yea, go to the meetings.
That is the key.
JJ question, If and when this new hospital is built will the next step be to ANEX other properties north of town like SKYLINE and other personal proppeties near the location ?????
And how long before they do ???
They really have not talked about annexing other properties in the area. But it could be out there in their minds.
I would say that if it happened, it would be several years.
Its not easy to annex in Kansas though.
Remember Parkerfield.
Anyways, I dont think it is in any plans for the near future.
I would guess that if they did, they would wait until this area was pretty well developed.
"Hospital officials say they have most of the money needed to build a new hospital but need the sales tax money to get them "over the top." Having that extra money would help them get loans and help them get through the first two years, hospital marketing director Clayton Pappan said. The sales tax would last no more than 10 years and hospital officials say they hope to not need it even that long."
why then do they need add'l sales tax funding to get through the first two years if its not for operating capital?
The annexation is something that people should keep in the back of their mind. Of course the people who would possibly be annexed will not be allowed to vote on the sales tax issue. Also roads to the new hospital will need to be kept up....who will be paying for this? This is going to cost the citizens a lot more than a 10 year sales tax.
I'm not against the hospital but there's a lot of questions that need to be answered first. Also someone needs to give an idea of costs down the road that will come into play that is not be considered in the amount the hospital needs.
Also I'm curious. Years ago the AC doctors were willing to pitch in to build the new hospital why are they not doing that now?
Most of the roads around the Patterson location are county roads, and of course the state highway. All of the streets inside the annexed area will be maintained by the city.
The Doctors were wanting to own the hospital, but a new Federal regulation will make it so that Doctors are not allowed to own hospitals any more. This is another reason that the city will still own any new hospital.
The hospital has the funds, but need to keep them in reserve for operating capital. Having additional funds available (from the sales tax) puts them in a better position for obtaining financing and better rates. This is a huge part of costs and would create a great savings over the long run.
The hospital can answer these questions much better than I can. They have the specific facts and figures at hand. Asking question here will only bring up speculation and opinion. Please attend the meetings and ask the questions. It is extremely important to all of us that we hear the facts and make an informed decision. Either way it is decided, we'll never know what was right without the facts. Attend the meetings, ask the questions and get the right answers.
Patrick McDonald
There are no plans or reasons to annex further in that area. The acreage at the Patterson site is large enough for about any kind of growth that might happen. It is also illegal to further annex to an island annexation unless the property owner requests it.
the system mixed that last post around a lot. I hope it still makes sense. If you have questions on the hospital that can't wait for the meeting, contact Clayton Pappan, the hospital's marketing director.
Patrick McDonald
Why are the feds wanting to control private hospitals? So they can force doctors to treat patients who do not pay? What will happen to the hospitals in Wichita which are owned by doctors?
"Why are the feds wanting to control private hospitals? So they can force doctors to treat patients who do not pay? What will happen to the hospitals in Wichita which are owned by doctors?"
There are already laws in place to ensure treatment of all Emergent Medical Needs. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THE EMERGENCY ROOM IS A DOCTOR'S OFFICE! It raises the cost of care for all of us. If you have insurance or not does not matter based on the COBRA law.
As for the hospitals in Wichita owned by the Dr's, they are being reviewed by and held accountable to the STARK law. Some were formed before this law exsisted, and so far have been grandfathered. however, that too is being looked at by the US Attorney General.
I wonder when I read these comments why people even live in this town. We seem to enjoy tearing apart every part of our community and the distrust is amazing. The hospital wants to build a facility that will bring us to the level of care that we all need and should expect. There is no personal gain for any of these people but for EVERY citizen in this town. That means ALL of us...we will gain!!!
Yes, it will cost you some more for a few years in sales tax but it could mean your life is saved or that you don't have to drive to Wichita for all those routine visits and check ups. Now, that is a mandatory drive and if you want to continue when the price of gas is high that is your business but if you want to stay here that is possible IF we get a new hospital.
How many of you have friends that must go to Wichita for tests now...how many of you have friends that can not drive there and must ask friends and children to take time off to transport them? This will help with many of those issues...granted, some will still need to go but many will not.
The drive to the hospital even north of town is much shorter than the drive to Wichita or Winfield. Now, we have no choice about driving there but perhaps in the future that drive will not be necessary.
Young people are returning to this community. We have gained a new surgeon and I think one or two dentists. It does not matter if they grew up here or not...they had choices and they came HERE with hope and with the desire to make this community home.
I am sure that if they had read this blog before coming they would have had to have had serious doubts. Please people, think of the vision for the future...ask logical questions but be realistic in your expectations.
Good people have put hours into the plans for this hospital. They want to make sure that we can treat the people that are ill and not have to go to Ponca, Winfield or Wichita. I feel quite sure that if there was a better site they would have chosen it...they had nothing to gain from putting the hospital there but the community has much to gain from this new facililty.
Once again we are at a crossroads in this town. One has passed us by, don't let the people who are against everything make you think they are thinking of the town's best interests. Those people cost us a Lowe's and could cost us our hospital. Stand up and be in favor of something for once. Let's really take pride in this town and get excited about our future.
Yeah peeps, I agree with the anonymous September 7, 2008 9:39 PM post. I am a personal care attendant and let me tell you if they are wanting to add expanded medical services and equipment think how this could benifit the severely disabled and elderly that have to drive to Wichita or whereever. Those trips take every ounce of their energy and are more often than not a painful drive for these people. Lets think about the risks of being in a large populated city hospital where the risks for various contagious infections are higher. Something to think about when you are whining about costs and location.
Why is it if we question the location and various other things people say we are against the hospital? Should we not ask questions and be better informed as citizens to make the best possible decision when it comes time to cast our votes?
The need, in my mind, is not the need for a better/new hospital but location, economic growth, specialized doctors, etc. I want to know what went behind the hospital saying all of this can and will be provided by the new hospital. I want to know who will maintain the roads to the new hospital. Sounds like it'll be a county issue which costs us, as taxpayers, even more money. Will the city jump on the opportunity to annex more land in the area? These are issues that must be asked (and answered). I'm not a naysayer but a voter with questions.
Instead of asking people here on the blogs who only know the rumors, wouldn't it make much more sense to ask the hospital at the meetings?
Unless you are not interested in the right information?
Just a thought
I don't think they are necessarily asking, I take it as discussing.
I know somewhere I read where the hospital said it would only take X amount of time to get to the location of the proposed new hospital. Has anyone done a study to calculate add'l cost of fuel used by the city ambulance and police departments to travel the extra distance outside of the city limits. This is a cost that we will be paying for many many years down the road. It should be given some weight during this process.
I rest my case
I don't get it. I have tried but I don't get it. You people want a new hospital but are upset because you don't like the new location. The land is free and will cost you for utilities. We can move it a mile south and you pay for the land and the utilities.
I get that you want to complain. I get that a few are asking legitimate questions but I don't get that you are convinced you know more than those that have spent years looking at other locations. I don't understand that even when the questions are answered you snear and start assuming these people are lying to you. Why ask the questions.
This is a no brainer. A new hospital with a regional care facility vs limited care. Who cares if I have to drive two miles. People in most two towns would celebrate a two mile drive with little traffic and a state of the art facility. Ask Newkirk, ask Derby.
Like I said I just don't get it. i assume those of you that are screaming about it haven't driven to Wichita to the Heart hospital or to the Wichita Spine Hospital or to any of the others. What is two miles? That sure beats the road to Wichita but like I said you that know better much have more time and gas money than I.
I also don't get why those that are askiing questions and so anti the hospital are not using your real names on your letters in the paper. It is too obvious to most of us that know those people that the language in those letters came from someone else.
I don't get why you are being so dishonest unless you dont truly have the best interests of the community at heart and are trying to set us back a few more years. Just be honest.
I get that we need a hospital and yes I have been in this one and the ones in Wichita this year. I get that we get great care here. I get that it could be better and certainly more diverse with more room and the ability to recruit more staff. I get that it will cost us money but not as much as driving to another town. I get that some people are control freaks and are upset that they were not consulted about the location. I get that when helicopters first landed at the hospital there was a big outcry that they would be noisy and the space was too small for them. I get that more people walk to Curry Field than the hospital but we moved it without the entire town sceaming about it being "too far"
I just don't get why we can't come together and look forward together.
Way things are going now costs are gonna go up one way or another, I gave up alonnnggg time ago.
Oh i get it. We shouldnt' have legitimate questions in order to make an informed educated choice.
or maybe the legitimate questions should be asked of people who know the answers, not of people who would like to give you their opinion?
though I firmly believe opinions are much more respected around town than legitimate answers.
I'm not asking these questions to hear answers of rumors etc but to point out there are still questions to be asked. And yes I will be asking these type of questions to those in the know. Sorry I stepped on your toes and hurt your feelings by bringing up issues that need to be asked.
I don't get it. I have tried but I don't get it. You people want a new hospital but are upset because you don't like the new location. The land is free and will cost you for utilities. We can move it a mile south and you pay for the land and the utilities.
Well what I don't get is with property taxes droping and local incomes falling and houses being for closed on at record pace in this country why do some not believe it is or it won't happen here. It just seems like you get a break from one part of the goverment and another steps up and takes what you get before it gets in your hand.We had arecord number of houses go up for back taxes and we have an increase in property tax for the school, the we are being bailed out by the government with tax relief for high gas and food and enegy cost when will the low or middle income people get a break. Progress is good and bad but if you can not afford to pay your bill at the new hospital then why go.
Progress at the right time is great and just because the carrot of money is dangled at a cheap rate should not mean jump out the wagon and get only to fall off the cliff. We are here and in this country in great financle dilima. and new buildings all over are being left empty.
I for one would just like to see people saving their on moneied instead of some one else saying I will save money for you. I just wonder if those people who want this new hospital would be willing be willing to help local people fight for higher wages to help those in need. (ie wages a local packing house in 1980 about $10.50/hr, in 2008 about $12.00/hr) along cry from what the cost of living has bone up.) ( Refinary workers in 1980 $13.50/hr in 2008 about $30.00/hr) we have lost in this county and we have not even come close to getting anything back if we could get back close to what going on around us then it would be worth it.
GOT TO RECOGNIZE WHAT YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU GO FUTHER ,OR END UP LIKE FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MAC AND FORD AND GM
Yes I understand the land is free. But although the land is free the roads to get there will need add'l maintenance which in turn means we pay more. Traveling further north means add'l cost for gas (and vehicle maintenance)for the ambulance and police, this means we pay more again. So what needs to be shown at the meetings put on by the hospital is show how the free land will offset the cost of these add'l expenses. Those are questions that we, as citizens, should be asking. Just because the sales tax goes away in 10 years or less does not mean the other expenses go away. We'll be paying for those for a long long time. Show me how the new hospital will bring in more revenue and development to the area. Prove that to me (and I can listen objectively) and I'll be happy to vote yes. But also I want to know what other places were looked at and those costs. Compare that to all the other above mentioned expenses and lets compare. Yes perhaps with the free land it is still cheaper but let us see those.
GOT TO RECOGNIZE WHAT YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU GO FUTHER ,OR END UP LIKE FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MAC AND FORD AND GM
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I think you need to recognize that all this talk about the economy going bad - and later it will be going good - is all manufactured so that big oil can continue to make obscene profits.
the economy is only bad if you think it is. its only good if you think it is.
Forclosures are happening because loan companies made bad loans, and now they want us to bail them out. Shouldnt the finance companies be held accountable for making bad loans in the first place?
I dont think we have to participate in the recession.
We really dont....
So what needs to be shown at the meetings put on by the hospital is show how the free land will offset the cost of these add'l expenses. Those are questions that we, as citizens, should be asking.
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Yes, those are questions that need to be asked.
THey have studied that and have some numbers.
Depends on where you are though. If youre on Kansas and the bypass, theres no difference in distance.
Hope youll go to some of the meetings
and bring those questions
h i get it. We shouldnt' have legitimate questions in order to make an informed educated choice.
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Legitimate questions are great.
But some people are against everything, and no matter how many answers you give them, they will come up with another negative.
.
We need legitimate questions and need answers to them.
We need to teach the naysayers to get a grip on reality., or encourage them to leave.
They are two distinct groups of people, questioners and naysayers...
n the other expenses go away. We'll be paying for those for a long long time.
The thing about the "other expenses" is that we will have them no matter what. Im not sure the "other expenses" will change much.
You will still have maintenance costs, costs for ambulances, gas for ambulances etc.,
A lot of these questions will be answered at the meetings..
feels like kind of a one sided conversation this morning James.. : )
Anyway, I can't remember where I heard it or read it, but economists state that a recession tends to last about a 1 1/2 years. My parents have always told me that anytime their is a presidential election coming up the whole country goes in an uproar and economy gets sluggish. Well this time around it has went sluggish to downright bad. Coincidince? Maybe so, maybe not. My personal opinion on this is that if if a republican keeps control of the white house we aren't going anywhere. I guess I might get my answer after this election.
Everyone seems to be pushing this alternate site for the hospital so who is making the money for that? Isn't there a business there that will have to bought out? Are some of these naysayers really going to be the ones making a profit on the alternate site? There has to be more to all this than meets the eye. Let's ask questions about everyone. The questions have to go both ways.
"I also don't get why those that are askiing questions and so anti the hospital are not using your real names on your letters in the paper"
and your name is?
I get that you want to complain. I get that a few are asking legitimate questions but I don't get that you are convinced you know more than those that have spent years looking at other locations.
I think that those who are convinced they know LESS than the people "in charge" are what is wrong with this country. Too many people are not involved and do not ask questions. We all just go about our daily lives thinking that everything is in control and that our government is making the right choices, or that it is out of our control, anyway. We should never take this assumption, or risk losing our independence, waging unnecessary war or crashing our economy.
On the other hand, we should not automatically assume that it is a conspiracy theory and the powers that be are up to no good. Paranoid behavior will only stall progress.
Question everything! Just do it with an open mind and an honest heart. This is STILL America! Appreciate the fact that we have the right to question and vote this issue.
A few years ago, in Arkansas City, those who made comments that weren't in line with the elite were "not team players". Now they are "naysayers". Is there a common here. Before you say if you don't like it, get elected. The common folk will never be able to afford to take a majority on the Arkansas City Commission. Just because some of the "negative" is being mentioned, does not mean they are not legitimate.
Anybody who is guessing and offering their opinions as answer against the hospital are naysayers. Those that do the research and provide valid arguments against it have our town at heart. How do we know the difference? Find out how many people attend the meetings. My guess is that people will still make up information instead of finding out the answers. We'll know when the paper tells us if anyone is attending the meetings.
GOT TO RECOGNIZE WHAT YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU GO FUTHER ,OR END UP LIKE FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MAC AND FORD AND GM
I dont think we have to participate in the recession.
We really dont....
JJ I hate that nasty R word but, you must kinda of think like McCain $250,000 is middle income. People have lost jobs across the state just a few weeks ago 300 in Coffeyville, before that 600 in Pittsburg this is a small example of what is going on. Not to mention all of those around here who have stock in major companies. This changes all sort of monies from personal to business to state in tax money Right! This has to be made up somehow. If there were not financal problems recognized Nationaly I would think that a bank would loan all the money to the hospital they needed to go along with the money they already have. But the banks are cutting back just as should we to control our spending. I for one dislike the ideal of a person having to decide do I pay rent feed the kids or take them to see the doctor. If people assk for a bailout which was made harder for poeple to file and get financail relief from the goverment courts then why should the puglic hank roll the hospital.
I think if you got out of your box and into the world of those who barely get by on wages here you would understand better. Now I know what they think of at the top that they are doing this for are on good but they will be the ones getting a better bigger profit share out of this than anyome else. Lastly when is the lasy time a doctor or hospital here gave someone medical help for free.
JJ this one is just for you to think about before you say we have a chance to chose recession or not!!!!!!!!!
30 jobs if that many for long term is not a booste for our local economy at a income of $12,000 to $19,000.
do doctors and nursed really make that much? they are incredibly overpaid!
and isn't this a community hospital? part of the city? our city? are they supposed to be making huge profits? if they do make huge profits does any of that money go back to the city? where does it go?
what if more businesses come? medical business. like specialty clinics and other services? do you think those people will make $12,000?
i have to wonder why people are so afraid things can be better. what part of these new things is so frightening? isn't it possible there is a bright side to this?
i have to wonder why people are so afraid things can be better. what part of these new things is so frightening? isn't it possible there is a bright side to this?
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After the civil war, there were some slaves who did not want to be free.
they were afraid or whatever, and served their masters for free... for years. Maybe their life wasnt all that bad...
Some people are just too comfortable in their misery, it would be too much of a shock to their system to feel good.
You know, if some doctor makes a bajillion dollars here in ark city, it wouldnt bother me in the least.
but docs and nurses do make a lot of money.
im not sure, but i believe 20 an hour would be medium to low pay for a nurse in a hospital.
They do make a lot, but they have a lot of pressure .. they had better always be right.
If i make a mistake in the paper, i get someone ticked off. If they make a mistake, it could kill someone.
but it is a great point.
why are people so scared of success? or so afraid something might be good.
If there were not financal problems recognized Nationaly I would think that a bank would loan all the money to the hospital they needed to go along with the money they already have. But the banks are cutting back just as should we to control our spending.
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Yes there are "problems" all over. But the thing is, these "problems" just materialized out of nowhere.
Thats why I think its a conspiracy.
I do remember a news story about analysts predicting a downturn in the economy, then we hit $4 a gallon gas - which is a blatant rape of the american public.
THAT is what is causing our problems... some "expert" said the economy was going to go bad, so it did.... And of course allowing the oil companies to gouge the public didnt help either.
NOw ... just watch ... the economists will say things are getting better, and they will...
Theres no ryme or reason, its just because someone in the power structure decides it will be so.
Im just saying that I think the public - the media and everyone - just goes along with it, making it happen just as the conspirators wanted.
Thats why i dont think we have to participate. Its not real, its something someone makes up, and everyone goes along with it ...
a self fulfilling prophecy.
Let's see if this is a community thing then why not do it as a coop thing and let those who want to invest put up money and gain income from the profit. This would make sence seeing those who want it besides the docto
rs can make money from the profit and those who cannot maybe will have money to pay there for treatment sincr they can not afford insurance.
This has been done in other places for different kind of projects,hey there was even some talk about this when the packing house on the south end closed up in 1982.
Commubity guy in could even the gap between the slaves who wanted to stay (who got property for staying) and the NAYSAYERS
SINCE THEY HAVE MOST OF THE MONEY ANYWAY!!! AND THEN YOU WONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WHAE THE SALES TAX WOULD COME OFF (BECAUSE YOU KNOW IT WONT EVER) PEOPLE ARE STILL PAYING TAX ON THE OLD BRICK STREET AND DIRT ROADS IN TOWN
I will %100 understand if this comment gets deleted, but I think their is some comments throughout the whole blog that make me think some people might need to see a therapist.
throughout the whole blog that make me think some people might need to see a therapist.
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And gets some meds
yup!
Traveler Editor said...
throughout the whole blog that make me think some people might need to see a therapist.
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And gets some meds
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Best make sure those in Office are taking Theirs. Judging by the way they act they may have stop taking their meds JJ. Sounds like to me anyone not backing this is a naysayer or looney yoon
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