The city commission meeting was kinda quiet.
I didn't get shot or anything.
They appointed Steve Archer to be the "acting" city manager. That means he will serve as city manager until they decide what to do.
He could become the city manager or not. I really don't know the commission's intent there, or Archer's desire or interest level.
Maybe they want to talk about it a bit, which would be a good thing. Just hope they do that publicly. Time will tell.
They didnt talk much about Doug Russell. They read a letter from him which outlined some things.
Doug will be an advisor for the next 30 days. Apparently he will not be keeping regular office hours, but will have access to office stuff to do stuff he needs to do.
Posts
121 comments:
what was outlined by Doug,, Please tell
JJ, I think you should try hard to get an interview lined up with Doug for AFTER he is no longer on the payroll. Ask him things like what the city could do to better move forward, and what ideas he had for our city that he wasn't able to implement because of the ami- (*a-hem*cough) commissioners. I am sure he will be diplomatic because his new city would likely read the article, but maybe he would outline some of the head butting that went on. You have nothing to lose, since he will never darken this towns door again I'm sure. Push for some hard answers.
ill do it.
as for what doug outlined.
it was just that he would be an advisor 30 days
that he would not work at city hall, meaning keeping regular office hours
that he would continue with some projects, which were not named.
that he would have access to everything he would need to work on projects.
that everything else in his contract - such as pay - would remain the same.
how many comissioners are Masons?? I am betting there are three and i am betting that Steve A is also.
ah, a conspiracy theory in the making.
i did see one of them doing a funny handshake once.
how about raising the pant leg and saying they are the son of a widow?
Sounds like a bunch of vitriol to me.
Nothing to it.
Son of a widow?? What does that even mean?
It probably means 'nothing'.
Just another dig at the commission.
:(
I agree, why waste time putting digs in at the commission
JUST GET RID OF THEM. They are systematically destroying our city. First they squelch a great business opportunity drawing people to our town and a multi-million dollar injection into our community. Now they have run off the city manager that the public chose! We helped choose that city manager to assist that commission and move things in what appeared to be a wonderful direction.
This has not been stopped completely. The ideas of the former commission, the dreams of the people who got to use their voice in what they wanted.
GET RID OF THE 3 AMIGOS before they cost us a hospital and the rest of the town!
There has been so much discussion about who is in charge and who can fire or hire whom. Folks have looked at the job descriptions and, overall, I believe more lay citizens are getting better educated in municipal government. A benefit from this turmoil is that voters may use different criterion in selecting its future leaders.
My concern is that folks seem to immerse their confidence ( and exhaust their concerns) in the titles and the authority assigned to each title. Well, Commissioners are commissioners and have legally defined authority, duties and power. City Managers also, have prescribed roles, limitations and authorities within a community.
What makes it work is the sense of accountability that each brings and maintains in the post of duty. In my corporate environment, we found that authoritative roles became less critical once people began to accept accountability and responsibility for their actions.
Those two words prompt any individual to consider that their actions are impacted (for good or bad) many others. Their actions could have negative financial ramifications on an individual or organization. Their choices could influence an ecological system and harm lives (reference groundwater contamination of south PC which was the result of five businesses that made poor decision decades earlier).
So, maybe the question and concern should be who is demonstrating a sense of accountability versus who is just in love with authority. If the current course turns out not to be in the better interest of the progress and well being of Arkansas City, who shall accept responsibility?
These five are the subject of much scrutiny. Yet, who are the contributors? Who enabled this?
Someone will have to demonstrate accountability. The first element of that is to openly communicate to the populous being impacted by this Municipal turmoil. That is neither the job description of a Commissioner or a City Manager. It is the job description of a Leader.
So now, somebody LEAD!!!
State statute concerning city manager:
12-1011: Same; powers and term of manager. The administration of the city's business shall be in the hands of a manager. The manager shall be appointed by the commission, and shall hold office at the pleasure of the board.
12-1012: Same; qualifications of manager. The manager shall be chosen solely upon the basis of administrative ability. Choice shall not be limited by any residence qualifications.
12-1013: Same; salary and bond of manager. The manager shall receive a salary to be fixed by the commission and shall give bond for the faithful performance of his or her duties in such amount as may be provided by ordinance.
AND MOST IMPORTANT:
12-1014: Same; duties and functions of manager; civil service commission in certain cities; appointments. The manager shall be responsible for the administration of all of the affairs of the city. He or she shall see that the laws and ordinances are enforced. The manager shall appoint and remove all heads of departments, and all subordinate officers and employees of the city. All appointments shall be made upon merit and fitness alone: Provided, That if any city operating under the commission form of government adopts the city manager form of government, after January 1, 1947, and at the time of such adoption has a civil service commission, said commission shall have a right to serve out its present time and such city shall continue to have a civil service commission and such civil service commission shall determine the merit and fitness of any and every person appointed to any position within the jurisdiction of the civil service commission, as established by the laws of 1913, chapter 88[*], and acts amendatory thereto: And provided further, That no officer or employee who is under civil service at the time of the adoption of the city manager form of government shall be discharged or removed from the office or position of employment he or she holds at the time of such adoption, except for cause, and then only in the manner prescribed by the civil service law in force at the time such removal or discharge is sought. In all cities adopting the city manager form of government, in which no civil service law is in force at the time of such adoption after January 1, 1947, the manager shall have the option to require the appointment of the civil service commission as established by the provisions of K.S.A. 13-2201 and any amendments thereto.
The governing board at the request of the manager, shall appoint civil service commissioners as is now or may hereafter be provided for by law for cities of the state of Kansas. He or she shall be responsible for the discipline of all appointive officers, and may, without notice, cause the affairs of any department or the conduct of any officer or employee to be examined. He or she shall prepare and submit the annual budget to the governing body and also keep the city fully advised as to the financial conditions and needs of the city. He or she may make recommendations to the commissioners on all matters concerning the welfare of the city, and shall have a seat, but no vote, in all of the public meetings of the governing body.
ONE OF OUR MAJOR PROBLEMS:
No member of the city commission shall directly interfere with the conduct of any department, except at the express direction of the commission: Provided, however, That all cities having a population of over one hundred thousand, owning an electric-light plant, a waterworks plant, a municipal airport or other public utilities, which utilities are operated, managed and controlled by a board of public utilities as provided by chapter 126[*] of the laws of Kansas for 1929, and all acts and parts of acts amendatory thereof, the utilities herein enumerated, as well as other utilities, shall be managed, operated and controlled by such boards of public utilities and the city manager shall have no jurisdiction or control over said utilities.
How or why is that a problem?
If you don't think Kuhn is trying to control or direct the water and sewer departments you're living in a fantasy world.
Other commissioners have pushed hard to control other departments including police, administration and streets. By interfering they made it almost impossible for the city manager to do his job. It doesn't matter who they hire, if they don't let the city manager do the job the city manager will be doomed to fail.
Why is Doug Russell still getting full pay when it looks to me as though he has by all means already quit? I believe a person gives notice to help with a transition. How in the world can he help with a transition when he has, in affect, already left the building?
He gets full pay because it says so in his contract. If it's the money you're worried about, you have only the amigos to blame for making him leave so soon. I'm worried less about the money, and more about the ramifications of this group being able to seat a yes man in a place where a strong will is needed.
I'm not complaining about the money. I'm complaining b/c basically he gave no notice to the city. He gave a letter and left. I understand contracts. I'm not even blaming the city commission. I'm sure he got a general contract. I'm betting if I gave a month's notice at my place of employment I better be there the last 30 days to work toward the transition. NOT give my notice and leave. I just think its crappy on the part of the CM
Again, the blame game.
Let's allow Mr. Russell to do his job until he leaves. And,... pay him to do it.
How many times do you read about police being suspended with full pay, or teachers. Let's prepare to move on people.
I think it is probably more that the city commission (or the majority) didn't want him around. After being pushed out, they took first opportunity to move him out.
NOT give my notice and leave
Thats not what happened.
he gave his notice.
the commission told him what to do during that 30 days, he is still working.
guess they didnt want him to stay at the office.
NOT give my notice and leave
Thats not what happened.
he gave his notice.
the commission told him what to do during that 30 days, he is still working.
guess they didnt want him to stay at the office.
Son of a widow. A masonic thing. You are supposed to help someone who says that. A secret code. Like a handshake but more powerful.
jj,
What happened with the Vinelife churh? I know that the city has rented it to a congregation, and that that congregation has put TONS of work into fixing it, so it would be real crappy of them to throw them out on their ear after all that hard work and money that they have put into it.
Nothing has happened yet
they talked about it at the commission work session.
the city wants to not own it anymore.
it could get interesting.
i dont think they are going to get thrown out, at least not for a while.
ill try to keep everyone posted on it.
so he told them what to do for the next 30 days , why not just tell them what to do for the next 60, 90, 120 , 180 , days come on give me a break , this guy ,DOUG, is screwing us over as bad as anyone ever has , if you dont see it you have drank the kool aid
so we never needed him to relocate here just phone it in doug ,
what about his wife , she coaches bulldog volleyball , how is that working out , heres the speech "girls i am here for you till something better comes along "
I'm all for making people stick it out, but did you ever think the commission didn't want him? Why do you think he left?
How can he be there when they don't want him there?
Stick it out. Butt heads. Make things worse for all of us.
Maybe you're right. He should stick it out. The commission should leave!
Maybe yet they should all learn to get along. Isn't that what the rest of us do at our jobs? I know everyone likes to complain about the commission but do you guys really know what goes on behind close doors?? No....none of us do. I have a feeling there is blame on both sides.
Some of you people are so obvious when you come here and say how your amigos are the only ones who are right, and everyone else just doesn't understand. It's obvious that they are friends or family of yours, or you wouldn't be so blind.
I started this a bit ago but I guess I didn't post.
I think the Interim City Manager is a decent human being. I think most of Ark City consists of decent human beings. I think the current Commissioners are decent human beings.
A huge challenge is to consider leadership when the choices the leader has to make must reflect respect and concern for those who agree and those who do not agree.
Agreement is not a condition for citizenship or representation. We, also, need to be careful about how strongly we infer or insist that someone is not trustworthy.
A base level of respect and a base level of common courtesy should be what guides the folks of this community as we navigate through the turbulent waters.
The community, while holding together at the time, is approaching a point when it might splinter into smatterings, none of which have critical mass to move forward or even promote healing of relationships.
Funny things is, I think the Lord placed our departing City Manager here for His specific purpose. I am happy that, in his leaving, he found another opportunity to pursue his career path and provide for his family.
This is Polly Anna ish but, we are, after all, talking about human beings and a couple with children to rear. Who would genuinely want them to be without simply because someone in Arkansas City may not have fully valued what they had to offer.
Let's be decent. I believe Arkansas City is comprised mostly of decent people. I think the frustration and hostility reflects that we simply want progress and improvement and do not see a path towards making that happen.
But where we are is all of our doing. The people that lead contribute. So too do the people who do not get involved. Likewise, the folks who simply complain are complicit in our plight.
The folks who just keep their heads low and go to work every day and try their best to tend to their own matters play a role.
The old adage about finger pointing (while corny) is true. Each time you point a finger at someone else, count how many are back in your direction.
If you point them all, be careful. Someone may mistake that as a gesture to lend a helping hand to a neighbor, friend or relative. Then what would we have? Decent people helping decent people. Wow!!! That's a vision to pursue!
This is Polly Anna ish but, we are, after all, talking about human beings and a couple with children to rear. Who would genuinely want them to be without simply because someone in Arkansas City may not have fully valued what they had to offer.
what the ???? no one wants them to be without , i think the recent raise proved that,
just because you use a snappy little quote does not mean that it applies to the situation at hand
I don't go by the words in these blogs, but I've heard and seen to much to know of these as decent people anymore. For some the power has obviously gone to their heads. For another too many things point at some commissioners as being less than honest.
There is no point in going into detail as no proof has arisen. But like any myth, there is a grain of truth. I wish it would come out soon so that we separately can move ahead.
Charles you are full of it
Yup! I admit it. I am full of it. If you only knew what I am full of and how it guides my life, changed my heart and gives me a zest for each day I am here living and breathing you would want to be full of it too.
Holy Spirit on the inside working on the outside Oh what a change in my life!!
Has anyone looked at recent Lowes numbers? In recent articles from the Wichita Eagle it is stated that Lowes buisiness is down 66% in the first quarter. They have stopped expansion projects and acctually closed stores in smaller communities much like ours. I'd personally like to thank the Three Amigos once again for helping stop yet another large empty building from coming to our town. Other than that what has Doug Russel ever even tried to do to help anything in Ark City? If projects with no thought that all go unfinished is what the people of Ark City want then I'm sure we can find someone much cheaper to do the same.
And just for the conspiracy nuts out there. Women aren't allowed in the Masons so the three amigos aren't sacraficing their goats there but I heard they all may have attended a Baptist church at one time so that could explain why they are so evil.
Those were Home Depot numbers. Lowe's was up 18% in Kansas.
Another person trying to find a good reason for turning away a good thing.
You don't have to lie to prove your point.
ACI=liars
http://finance.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:LOW
Robert A. Niblock, Lowe's chairman /CEO commented, "The generally poor economic outlook, including well-known housing pressures, rising food and fuel prices and a more negative employment picture eroded consumer confidence and impacted discretionary purchases for the home."
For infomrmation specific to Kansas, try these figures:
www.kansas.com/508/story/408637.html
Up 18%.
Just like in the past trying to compare us to something else is ridiculous. Lowe's wants to expand here because KANSAS is still growing!
Lowe's Reports First Quarter Sales And Earnings Results
Financial Statements
Q1 2008 Financial Statements
MOORESVILLE, N.C. - Lowe's Companies, Inc. (NYSE: LOW), the world's second-largest home improvement retailer, today reported net earnings of $607 million for the quarter ended May 2, 2008, a 17.9 percent decline versus the same period a year ago. Diluted earnings per share declined 14.6 percent to $0.41 from $0.48 in the first quarter of 2007.
Sales for the quarter declined 1.3 percent to $12.0 billion, down from $12.2 billion in the first quarter of 2007. Comparable store sales for the first quarter declined 8.4 percent.
"The challenging sales environment we have been experiencing for the past six quarters continued into the first quarter of 2008, and increasing financial pressures on consumers resulted in top-line sales that fell below our plan," commented Robert A. Niblock, Lowe's chairman and CEO. "The generally poor economic outlook, including well-known housing pressures, rising food and fuel prices and a more negative employment picture eroded consumer confidence and impacted discretionary purchases for the home.
"With our offering of great products and exceptional service, Lowe's continued to gain market share in the quarter, and diligent expense control helped us achieve respectable earnings in spite of the headwinds facing the industry," Niblock continued. "Fiscal 2008 will be a challenging year on many fronts, but we remain focused on what we can control and will continue managing for long-term success and pursuing opportunities as they arise in the current environment."
During the quarter, Lowe's opened 20 new stores. As of May 2, 2008, Lowe's operated 1,554 stores in the United States and Canada representing 176.4 million square feet of retail selling space, an 11.1 percent increase over last year.
A conference call to discuss first quarter 2008 operating results is scheduled for today (Monday, May 19) at 9:00 am EDT. Please dial 888-817-4020 (international callers dial 706-679-8762) to participate. A webcast of the call will take place simultaneously and can be accessed by visiting Lowe's website at www.Lowes.com/investor and clicking on Lowe's First Quarter 2008 Earnings Conference Call Webcast. A replay of the call will be archived on Lowes.com until August 17, 2008.
Lowe's Business Outlook
Second Quarter 2008 (comparisons to second quarter 2007)
The company expects to open approximately 23 new stores reflecting square footage growth of approximately 11 percent
Total sales are expected to increase approximately 1 percent
The company expects comparable store sales to decline 6 to 8 percent
Earnings before interest and taxes (EBIT) margin is expected to decline approximately 190 basis points driven by payroll, fixed costs, depreciation and gross margin
Store opening costs are expected to be approximately $22 million
Diluted earnings per share of $0.54 to $0.59 are expected
"Lowe's second quarter ends on August 1, 2008 with operating results to be publicly released on Monday, August 18, 2008
Fiscal Year 2008 (comparisons to fiscal year 2007)
The company expects to open approximately 120 stores in 2008 reflecting total square footage growth of 7 to 8 percent
Total sales are expected to increase approximately 1 percent
The company expects comparable store sales to decline 6 to 7 percent
Earnings before interest and taxes (EBIT) margin is expected to decline approximately 180 basis points
Store opening costs are expected to be approximately $106 million
Diluted earnings per share of $1.45 to $1.55 are expected for the fiscal year ending January 30, 2009
I have to wonder if half the energy spent on proving who is right - was spent on solving issues/problems. How different things might really be in our area!
When all the dicussions lead to what was lost and very little on what we can be/do!
Where the future depends on our vision of tommarrow and that is determined by our decisions today!
Who in the future will remember the arguments and care who was right or wrong?
well said
amen
The problem with that thought is once we lose something, or close the door on it, we close the door on many things at the same time.
By rejecting opportunities, especially in the fashion that we did, we reduce the number of opportunities in the future.
Before we slam the door on our future, we should research all of the alternatives. Or we could harass and humiliate the developers in public and make sure they spread the word not to work with us.
Alot of the people(not saying all) that come to this blog are the negative people, the ones that look at the cup half empty, the ones that wants to be the opposite just for the sake of aurgument. Just compare how many comments in the blog that talks about the city commission versus the blogs about ideas such as the land rush thing. So how in the world do we expect to ever solve any problems here. People dont like the positives, they want to dwell on all the negatives.
Get rid of the negatives. That would be a great help.
Start with the 3 amigos, they are as negative as it comes. Though they can sure butter it up!
There is nothing negative about the amigos that I can see. If you talked TO them instead of ABOUT them you would see that. I understand it a lot more fun to try to tear them down so you can make yourself feel better when any of them disagree with you.
"The problem with that thought is once we lose something, or close the door on it, we close the door on many things at the same time."
This is purely conjecture. Prove it. Things don't always happen this way. Sometimes when you lose something it is a good thing. If we lost you crybabies a lot of people would rejoice. Anyone who hasn't yet moved on and realized this wasn't the right deal at the right time needs to move right on out of town. It is a shame you have to complain so long and so hard everytime you have your side not win. Why don't you get out and do something positive and productive?
"By rejecting opportunities, especially in the fashion that we did, we reduce the number of opportunities in the future."
Again pure conjecture. Why don't you just make some other stupid bold blanket statement like by embracing opportunites we will reduce the number of opportunities. If everyone got on the same opportunity bandwagon someone would miss out and get left behind and then we'd have to have opportunity affirmative action so everyone could be made sure to have their own opportunity. You make up bologna of stories of your sorry life so you can have a window to look out and make some sense of your misery within a context that doesn't exist. Most normal people refer to that as dreamworld. I hear you can get prozac at the mental health center for next to nothing. You should strongly consider looking it up.
"Before we slam the door on our future, we should research all of the alternatives. Or we could harass and humiliate the developers in public and make sure they spread the word not to work with us."
Now this is probably just wishful thinking on your part. You would prefer to paint a picture of chaos and destruction and tell everyone you know how we are set adrift and set back 15 years. Fact is I know of at least 3 developers who have been contacted since your personal emotional fiasco and they were all aware of what happened here. None of them balked at the thought of coming here and nothing of mentioned wanting nothing to do with us. Just the opposite. They were interested in coming and interested in talking more but just needed the right set of circumstances like free land tax break the usual junk. That still is something that has to sit well enough for the rest of us citizens who don't have millions to gain from land sales to want to stomach.
I wish I could live in a dream world like yours. The only problem is you will have to wake up soon.
As far as conjecture, if you didn't see it and hear it like most of us did while it was aired on TV for 3 days, then you have no excuse for your delusions.
at some point you have to move on.
the lowe's deal is gone.
theres not really any point in going over it and over it.
can we move on ?
It's hard to move on when your options are limited. There is nothing else lined up that was this big in Ark City. And the few things remaining could get dropped any time. They seem to be so tenuous I hesitate to mention them. My only hope is that if the commissione doesn't find out, maybe we can make them happen.
I'm glad there is nothing else lined up that would be that devastating for Ark City.
So just for kicks. Keeping in mind that fuel prices aren't going back down anytime soon.
What would benefit the towns in our area.
I'll throw one out - Office Max Office depot or similar type store.
Care to share?
If tomorrow all the Lowe's were gone,
they’d worked for for all their lives.
And they had to start again,
to find a new way to start strife.
I’d thank my lucky stars,
to be livin here today.
‘Cause we still have the right to vote,
and they can’t take that away.
And I’m proud to be an Amigo's friend,
where at least I know I’m free to think.
And I am proud to vote in,
those who represent me.
And I gladly stand up,
next to you and defend Ark City still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this town,
God bless this town that starts with 'A.'
From the Lake of the Veteran's,
to the hills of the Country Club.
Across the plains of Goff Industrial,
From 15th to shining D.
From the canal down to the river,
and Chestnut bridge to Chestnut bridge
Well there's pride in every Ark Citizen's heart,
and its time we stand and say.
And I’m proud to stand with the Amigo's,
where at least we know one thing.
They did their best to represent us,
and prevent a tragedy.
And I gladly stand up,
next to you and defend Ark City still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this town,
God bless this town that starts with 'A.'
And I’m proud to be and Ark Citizen,
where at least I know I’m free.
To put into the commission those,
who stand against corruption for me.
And I gladly stand up,
next to you and defend Ark City still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this town,
God bless this town that starts with 'A.'
Right is right, even if everyone is against it; and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it
--William Penn
Very creative! :)
Hurry, somebody call 'Samantha' a.k.a. Bewitched. Or, even better, call 'Jeannie' up. a.k.a. the genie from the bottle.
Ok, now lets all be nice. Noone gets their way all the time. There are a few, that are acting like the spoiled kids that we all see from time to time at the store. You know, the one screaming and crying, praying that their parent will give-in sooner or later.
Lowe's deal is gone. I would like to have seen something come in here, but I have chosen to move on.
You might as well keep moving on because we ain't gonna get nothing here!
To the person who KNOWS of 3 other deals since then, I wanna know what you been smokin!
If there were 3 (count them THREE) other possible deals why haven't we heard of at least one.
For the person whe wants the Office Max or similar, please let Curtis Eaton know so he can get Brown's and Keefe's in an uproar to prevent it.
WE DON'T WANT ANYTHING TO INTERFERE WITH DOWNTOWN BUSINESS
We don't want the people of Ark City to have a choice. Are the 3 amigos under control or will someone have to pay out again?
Who do you have to be to have them pull strings for you?
Please list in order by date all
deals Ark City Industry has brought here in the way of economic development since 1990.
Now, go drive down the Winfield bypass. Go to their industrial park. Drive around the new warehouse for rubbermaid. Take a spin through the Schwan's parking lot. Drive along Wheat Road. Go to Biederman's and Nieve's. Take a stroll around Quail Ridge or Cumbernauld or Viscaya.
You might even check out their neat power plant or softball fields. Those are unrelated I understand but couldn't help but throw those in for good measure.
So let's review this again. Please list the items from the question at the top.
Enough said. I don't think the current commission is at fault for us being 15 years behind. Quit blaming everyone but yourself and get to work. We can do better.
You are absolutely right!
The current commission did NOT put us in this position. They just made absolutely certain we STAY in this position.
How can we have those new things? How did Schwann's and Rubbermaid get their new warehousing (no new jobs)? Tax abatements and other city incentives.
We could be developing even better with more jobs, more opportunities and drawing people from other areas... Except the commission rejects them out of hand because they don't want to give out incentives.
Ark City industries has made some huge improvements, though you might not want to recognize them. Future Beef (now Creekstone) the largest employer in town. Goodtime Productions. Jim Sybrants warehousing in Madison and across from Creekstone. It's too bad they don't get some help. The city could work with Ark City Industries and give them more tools to work with... or reject their projects for no reason.
Don't worry, the city will probably hire someone for $100K per year to do what Ark City Industries is doing for free. Your tax dollars wasted again!
Nice try at deflection. Answer the question. You can keep blaming the commission or you can accept responsibility for your 20 years of failure and neglect. We didn't get here over night. But that was the answer I expected from you ACI apologists.
BTW it wasn't tax incentives that got those things built in Winfield. It was land sold for far less than what ACI wants to sell theirs for. ACI wants to make a profit at citizen expense. Winfield just wants to grow.
I didn't say TAX incentives. What difference tax or free property? It is still providing from the taxpayers pockets to bring something in.
Nice try, but you have proven you don't have a clue. Yes, Winfield gives away land (JUST LIKE ARK CITY), though they do have other advantages like cheaper electricity.
If you doubt Ark City giving away land just ask about the land bank. Free or virtually free to anyone depending on the application.
Ooops, didn't mean to confuse you again with reality.
No matter how many times James says that we have to move on from the Lowe's deal, I just can't get past it. How could those 3 just flush all that growth and opportunity without even going to the next step? How could they just ignore my signature on a petition like that and then throw it away to cover their tracks? How can they say they were carrying out the will of the people when it was obvious to anyone with eyeballs that the only people they were really looking out for was the local businesses that would have to lower some of their ridiculously high prices to compete with Lowe's (Midwest Electric, Bryants, ACE), AND some of the local contractors who might have lost business (Kuhn)? How can you people believe that these three amigos would EVER put the majority interest above that of themselves and their downtown friends after seeing how this played out?
And the City Manager leaving is just another stone in the path to this town's ruin. We will get a YES man with no training and no experience who will do nothing to jeapordize his position.
Let's all get out and vote these three out at the soonest opportunity.
ever looked at the land bank properties know-it-all? they are crapola. sorry places. not much space. you can't build industry on that. give away land is 1x vs extended years for the tax giveaways. and you start getting $'s back immediately.
you honestly believe you are awake AND smarter than the rest of us? grow up or quit crying. take your pick.
sg's unfounded comments are just one more reason I will be getting out to vote to keep the amigos (friends of ours) in and prevent blinders-on people like sg from controlling our demise. I'm progrowth all the way but your signature on a petition doesn't make you a majority or right. I'm glad they closed the door before the rest of the information came available. I don't personally believe there WAS ANY additional information that would have made any difference any way. Bad deal = Bad deal this week and next. Why not stop it as soon as it is obviously not the right deal at the right time and move on to better things? Do you honestly believe that the improvements that you see in town right now would have taken place recently if it weren't for the positive influence this commission has brought?
if it gets more people involved in the process , it will be worth it.
James you could be onto something. The martyrs who followed Jesus had their blood spilt all over the world and that led to the spread of Christianity in a way that could nevr have happened by books and word of mouth. Ppl had to die like seeds inorder to propagate the gospel. Maybe that is what had to happen here? Stuff got shaken up alot and ppl got agitated and maybe we are waking up the dead that was ArkCity and we will have something better grow out of it all.
The person who seems to know that land bank properties as crappola is obviously a commissioner or city employee. My guess is one of the 3 amigos.
the other person "June 10, 2008 8:50 PM" is even worse for being happy that further information did NOT come out. Making a decision without information is INSANE. Preventing knowledge of the information is stupid and decades ago would have been considered comunist. In either case, traitorous to our city.
I agree with James. Let's move on. You people are starting to scare me. Let the amigos take control and run it their way. It's better than the insanity you are wishing for... or maybe its the same.
"Please list in order by date all
deals Ark City Industry has brought here in the way of economic development since 1990"
What has this commission done?
They did sell a piece of downtown property for next to nothing for a new meat market that may employ 3 or 4 people. Though they rejected a shopping center that could have employed more than 100 people.
This new commission ran spouting individual rights and parking in front yards, but now want individuals to replace their glass.
This new commission wanted lower taxes, but now wants to hire more people and spend more money on roads and add a sales tax!
You tell me what this new commission has done!
What this commission has done continued......
Lets see they have also taken away benefits from city employees, managed to run the new City Manager off, they have created a Hatfields and MCoy's attitude in the city, managed to ignore the citizens survey, they got new badges to flash around. Wow they have done a lot! Gee Thanks!
Badges? What's this about badges? please elaborate.
ANONYMOUS said:
"sg's unfounded comments are just one more reason I will be getting out to vote to keep the amigos (friends of ours) in and prevent blinders-on people like sg from controlling our demise. I'm progrowth all the way but your signature on a petition doesn't make you a majority or right. I'm glad they closed the door before the rest of the information came available. I don't personally believe there WAS ANY additional information that would have made any difference any way. Bad deal = Bad deal this week and next. Why not stop it as soon as it is obviously not the right deal at the right time and move on to better things? Do you honestly believe that the improvements that you see in town right now would have taken place recently if it weren't for the positive influence this commission has brought?
June 10, 2008 8:50 PM"
Exactly what part of my comments were unfounded? Was the Lowe's deal NOT killed before we had all the facts? Was my signature NOT ignored? Were the petitions NOT "lost"? Were the majority of citizens in this town NOT for having a Lowe's and all that it would bring, such as new places to shop and eat?
You admitted in your response that you are friends with the amigos, so why should your obviously BIASED opinion trump the facts that I laid out? You are obviously blinded by your loyalty to one or more of the amigos, so it is your opinion that should be taken with a grain of salt.
And as for you saying "I'm glad they closed the door before the rest of the information came available." That may be the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Any decision that is made without all the facts is a bad decision. Only an idiot (or three) would answer without hearing the whole question, unless of course, they had ulterior motives, which many believe is the case here (and I'm inclined to believe, simply because it is the only rational explanation).
And oh yes, they WILL be voted out. you and your "friends" do not speak for the majority of people in this town.
In response to the question on badges:
Mayor Dotty obtained a badge (I'm not sure whether she took it upon herself to buy one or through the city) and after showing it around a few times decided that all of the commission must have one. The badge serves no purpose as commissioners have no authority. I and at least one other commissioner insisted that we did not need them, but as Mayor she chose to order them anyway. I can't remember the cost ($50-$70?) but to me it was a wasted expense. I now have a commissioner's badge sitting on top of my bureau.
I am not sure, but I heard that one of the commissioners flashed their new badge representing their self as part of law enforcement. I don't know if that is true, but it would be illegal. The city commissioners are not any part of law enforcement.
I hope this helps. If I can answer any further questions pertaining to commissioner's badges or anything else, feel free to write to me at pmcdonald2005@sbcglobal.net
Patrick McDonald
Is it true one was flashed at someone parking on the sidewalk? Is it true one was flashed at a local bar?
I am not certain how or why the badge was used in the particular case I heard. It was several months ago and I have forgotten the details. I have heard rumors of other instances but cannot confirm any of them.
I see no purpose for these badges other than a momento of our services. They represent no authority and only possible use might be identification. Though they are not even a valid ID.
Patrick McDonald
Sounds like a power trip for a few!
That is an outrage!
Badges are not used for ID purposes, and should not be "flashed" as a show of authority. This would be illegal, falling under the Impersonating an Officer Statute.
It is ridiculous that these ami.. cough... commissioners would carry these badges around as if they have any authority at all. It speaks to how big their heads have become since they took office, and how they feel they run this town.
The commission has no authority, past the ability that all citizens have, such as making a citizens arrest.
As a former Police Officer, who wore a badge that actually represented something and showed authority, I am offended by these commissioners carrying these fake badges, and angered if indeed my tax money paid for them.
JJ, please bring this to the attention of all your readers, as many of them don't visit this blog. Let them know what their tax money is being wasted on, and how these commissioner think they are above the rest of us.
If it is true that one of them flashed their badge at someone who was parked illegally, or at a bar for whatever reason, they should be charged with impersonating an officer.
Thank you Pat for bringing this to our attention, and for being smart enough not realize that these badges have zero authority. I can only assume that Joel is the other commissioner who was against getting them, as you two are the only smart ones there.
Patrick, are you the only one sitting on that board with a level head on your shoulders? Quite a bit of money to spend on a badge. Did it come out of her pockets or the cities pocket?
I have tried to continuously stay neutral, but that has got to be the stupidest waste of money by far! Almost everyone in town has got to know by now who the commissioners are, or a certain 3 that are mentioned quite frequently.
I heard about this a couple months ago.
Dotty Smith says she got the badge for herself with her own money.
She told me she did flash it at someone but was just kidding around. THey did take her seriously and were upset about it. They threatened to write a letter to the editor, which i told them they could do, but they did not.
Dotty said no on else got a badge
This does bear some looking into. Ill try to find out more.
Thank you James. It seems like Patrick is willing to talk. Seems like the best place to start your expose on the subject.
Hopefully the general public will be as outraged about this as I am.
And for those of you who would like to see the amigos go bye bye, This might also be the means to an end for a recall, if the person James spoke of can be convinced to come forward and pursue charges.
jj,
Obviously Dotty was lying to you, because Patrick just said that she got everyone badges. Thankfully he is smart enough to leave his at home.
I'm not sure how consistant the practice has been, but for many years the commissioners have been given badges [paid for by the city]. Usually they were meant as a memento for their "service". Ask a former commissioner to show you theirs. [Be assured that the 50-75 dollar cost figure is very low].
Getting a badge as a memento when leaving office, and flashing one as if you have authority to enforce laws are two entirely different things. and Why badges? Whatever happened to a nice plaque?
James,
Sounds like a mission for you to check out. If Dotty lied to you, I wonder what else she has mislead the public about. The grapevine says she flashed a badge to someone parking on the sidewalk. That person complained to the Police. Grapevine also says that our new mayor flashed his badge to the bouncer at the Red Zone Bar. I would think the Police would have some info. If they misrepresented themselves why is nothing being done? What has happened to ethics! No wonder our youth are troubled, look at the role models we have representing our community.
I agree! Go get'em James. Please check into this unethical behavior. How can we trust them? Makes me suspect of everything they do.
get a grip people. I heard they used too many paperclips. I heard they even requested that the paper clips that are used be gold plated.
sg = ralph mcdonald.
nice try jerk. good luck onthe recall you have been working so hard on. you are out to win the sore loser award of the decade. hicks.
I could be mistaken, but i don't think sg is ralph mcdonald.
I think his phraseology is different.
But ... only the shadow knows.
Ill check on it.
I think the flashing of the badge thing was a misunderstanding.
It's probably not illegal to buy badges for everyone as a memento of their time of service.
I dont recall it ever coming up ina meeting though, so ill see what i can find out.
It is not illegal to buy badges or to own badges, but it IS illegal to show them as if you are representing the police department. It's just asking for trouble to even give them out like that. If this was reported to the ACPD, then there should be a public record which can be checked into by our fearless editor. If there is not, then it was brushed under the rug. Wouldn't surprise me one bit.
and no, I'm not Ralph McDonald. LOL I have given more than enough info, just on this one topic alone, that doesn't fit (well, I assume... I don't actually know Ralph McDonald.. was he ever in law enforcement?). I have no connection to anyone in the city government. I'm just a concerned citizen, unbiased by friendship or relation, who doesn't like what he hears about these three amigos. Only those who are friends, relation, or workers of theirs seem to stick up for them.
"It is not illegal to buy badges or to own badges, but it IS illegal to show them as if you are representing the police department."
Your right SG it is not illegal, but it is in poor taste. Sounds like a power trip to me. They seem to motivated by the title than a servent type attitude. It is a black eye to our community and a poor representation of leadership.
I also have to admit I was (KEY word WAS!) a supporter of our new mayor and Dotty, but no more, they have dissapointed and embarrased me for the last time.
Here's what I think...
I believe that there were a lot of people (like myself) who had never participated in a local election, but plan on doing it the next go around. I do not agree with many things that I see going on in town, but feel I have no right to gripe or carry on. If I did not vote (same goes for those who voted for just what they got), then the Lowe's deal (and others)is just as much my fault as it the commissions.
Perhaps this WAS a blessing in disguise. Maybe it has raised the eyebrows of people like myself and now we are listening. Next time, our voices will be heard. Everyone needs to get the word out: VOTE!!!
Oh, and for those of you who feel you were duped by your voted officials...
Maybe next time we should insiste on more information before we vote. Perhaps we need some sort of town hall debate on the "issues". Maybe we just need some more choices on the ballots?
People who wish to run for city commission need to sign in with the county by the middle of January. Now is a good time to start looking for who you want to run. There will be 3 seats up for election as there are every 2 years.
My 4 year term will be ending (Patrick McDonald)
Joel Hockenbury's 4 year term will be ending.
Scott Margolius' 2 year term will be ending.
I will either step aside or run again depending on what people ask me to do. I'm not sure what plans Joel and Scott have.
You have about 6 months to figure out who you want to run and develop a plan to get them in. The 3 people in a new election can change the course of the commission just as it did a little over a year ago.
It's up to the voters.
Patrick McDonald
Oh great... the two people with the best heads on their shoulders are up for re-election. Well, I for one sincerely hope that Patrick and Joel run again for re-election. I'm sure the public has seen, as I have, that they are the only ones making decisions based on what the majority of people want.
Let's replace Margolius with someone who has a good head on their shoulders and doesn't just follow Dotty and Kuhn. This will give the majority back to the right people in any future votes.
Right you are! and anyone who knows Dottie as a landlady would already know it is about a major power trip and that she had no intentions in doing anything for Ark City unless it benifits her directly.
By placing the blame on three individuals. You sure let a lot of others off the hook!
The fact that you think the city comissioners should be the driving force behind Economic Development is simply looking for government to solve all the problems!
What about the private sector. The bankers, industry and local business leaders etc.
For all the potential our area has it doesn't have strong leaders.
Seems they hide behind the scenes (public) in major issues.
"Consensus is the negation of leadership"
I can't recall who said it but I think I can see it in action!
The reason the Lowes deal has left such turmoil. Is probably a reflection of how desperately we
want progress.
Why does progress begin and end with the Lowes Project?
Agreed!!!
Let's stop looking back, and begin looking ahead.
PLEASE
It didn't begin there, it developed to that point. It ended there because some of our commissioners scorned and humiliated the people trying to put it together. They managed to give Ark City the reputation of being "hicks" and wasting developers money to learn more then try not to let it out.
I think this is an email address for the recall petition:
veterwoman1@yahoo.com
Leaders needed! Now is the time to act!
leadership is the problem, in my opinion.
vision is a close second.
i dont thing a recall effort is the answer
it would just polarize us further.
where have you gone joe dimagio
our nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
hay my last name is Hicks i thought we were not name calling
Its World War 3!!
Traveler Editor said...
leadership is the problem, in my opinion.
vision is a close second.
i dont thing a recall effort is the answer
it would just polarize us further.
where have you gone joe dimagio
our nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
June 12, 2008 2:22 PM
JJ,
I'm wondering the same thing. Leadership seems to be missing in action.
Leadership needs integrity, honor,
and respect for others.
I'm beginning to think that there are no such people anymore. And yet, I know much better than that.
As one in the position of leadership, I have learned that we must be tough and yet we must love and respect people. But folks, I have also learned that sometimes we have to look beyond what the normal person may see.
The blame game will always be there.
They blamed Jesus. We blame the President, Congress, and Senate. We blame the Judges. We blame the Police, the Schoolteachers, the Preachers, the Parents, the Kids. (oh and let's not forget how much homework the Pets ate up)
At some point, I realized that all of mankind has greed issues. Could it be, our eyes are to big? Are we always searching for 'more'? This doesn't mean we can not hope for PROGRESS. Simply put, let's learn to believe and hope for the best.
Give life a chance. Try smiling and caring for each other. Try being 'nice'.
Yes !
I think our culture has become a blame culture. We always need someone to blame.
The hurricant katrina was a natural disaster, still we had to have someone to blame.
I guess it was Bush's fault the govt didnt stop the storm and route it to mexico instead.
But that is a copout.
We can always find someone to blame, but that accomplishes nothing.
We all need to realize we are part of the solution or part of the problem.
WE all need to do our part and to help others when we can.
THAT would work.
Everyone (not just AC) wants the government to fix their problems. Sad to say, but the people are begging for a socialist system. When our country was founded, people died for the right to fend for themselves. They wanted freedom and independence. The American dream was about working hard and gaining personal success without government interference. Now, we all want to sit on our duffs, blame others for our problems and we expect someone else to fix it. Who do we look to first? Government! Be careful what you wish for...
im beginning to thing socialized gasoline is a good thing.
capitalism has run amok with Bu$h and the oil companies.
(ducking for cover)
I don't remember this kind of polarization before the Lowe's fiasco. I do remember people bitching about our high taxes, our high utilities, and the rash of illegal immigration that came with the packing house.
Then, these three "leaders" (Pat and Joel excluded) showed us, right out in the open on public TV, just how little they cared about us, our city, and our hopes for progress.
They spit in our face by ignoring our petition; They made us look like idiots in front of outside developers; and they totally ignored the will of the people.
They killed the deal without even HEARING the deal, simply because they wanted to cater to their own interests (and those of downtown business) over the interest of the town.
Up until then we had been duped into believing that these people cared about us and our town. Our eyes were opened by the Lowe's deal you could say.
That's the way I feel, and I get the feeling that many others feel the same thing.
Then, I start hearing about these people running around flashing fake badges at people as if they have some mighty authority, and it just reinforces the idea that these people are just power hungry idiots.
We must have people in leadership positions who can put the will of the people, and what's best for the town, above their own interests. I feel like Pat and Joel have shown time and again that they can do so, and I sincerely hope they run again.
-sg
JJ, I'm ashamed of you! I just read today that oil company profits average 8.5% . Did you know that the average casino brings in a profit of 10.5%? Gas companies are not as greedy or dirty as they seem. The difference is that we can stay away from casino's if we choose. However, most of us are dependent on gasoline. What we need are options! Alternative fuel would be a good thing. It would be nice if oil companies could drill off-shore or other places which are off limits by (guess who?) our government. From what I understand, it's the environmental lobyists who are holding this up.
Heck, even the Chinese are drilling for oil off the shores of Florida. I believe I read about 90miles out? Maybe we need to get a clue!
don't believe the 8 percent at all.
for 2007 and so far this year,
EVERY quarter the major oil companies have had record breaking profits
meaning that their profit margins have been even higher each quarter.
and did you read that the republican senators blocked the removal of a tax incentive for big oil?
that was yesterday.
So not only are they robbing us at the pump to make obscene profits, we are also subsidizing them with taxpayer money.
how can this be justiified ?
Well, I'll agree with you on this one. I do not know when or why government started subsidising ANY business to begin with! Why not just let capitalism take care of itself. If a business can not make it on their own, let them fail! The country will change and adapt along with it's industry, or we weren't much of a country to begin with.
Right now, we are subsidising ethanol production. If we weren't, it wouldn't exist. It takes more than a gallon of fossil fuel to make one gallon of ethanol. Perhaps they will change that with technology and knowledge, but in the meantime taxpayers are supporting this business. We've all seen the results with corn prices and wheat shortages.
jj, let me ask you a question. What has the Democratic congress done for us since they have taken over? Not one thing that means anything, so leave the politics to the politican's.
Hey i didn't in any way mean to say the Dems were doing anything good.
My criticism of GOP senators should not be taken as positive for the DEMS, they are just as guilty as each other.
It was the comment about Bush and the oil company people,that torqued me a little. If Bush or any other President could do anything about the price of oil I would like to see it happen. We are the 3rd oil producing country in the world but need to do so much more. Thanks for letting me vent.
oil refineries were shut down, including the ones in Arkansas City, which were profit making enterprises
they were shut down to limit the supply
the problem is supply i guess, brought on by the oil companies shutting down refineries.
If there were more refineries there would be no shortage.
We have enough oil to last several hundred more years.
We do need to research other means of power , but
there is no excuse for what the oil companies are doing to us.
It's happening on Bush's watch, and he is an oil man. ....
not sure he can directly do anything now, but he could have pushed GOP senators to do the right thing on giving oil companies corporate welfare as they gouge us and wreck our economy.
I saw a list of gas prices throughout the world, and in baghdad they pay about 15 cents a gallon. Didn't Bush say that this war would pay for itself with oil? What the hell happened to that? I guess when you have high ranking government officials sitting on the boards of oil companies, this is what you get. We pay them subsidies ON TOP of the record breaking profits. It makes me sick.
I saw a list of gas prices throughout the world, and in baghdad they pay about 15 cents a gallon. Didn't Bush say that this war would pay for itself with oil? What the hell happened to that? I guess when you have high ranking government officials sitting on the boards of oil companies, this is what you get. We pay them subsidies ON TOP of the record breaking profits. It makes me sick.
I think this oil problem lies with the environmentalist, they don't want us drilling at Anwar, but we can't stop China drilling 50 miles off the Florida coast. We have many oil reservoirs that have not been developed because of this or that, let's put it to the test do you want cheaper gas or protect the spotted owl.
What I do not get is that the same people who blame certain members of government (i.e. Bush) for high gas prices are usually the same people who want the government to step in and fix it. If they are the ones who have done this to us and we do not trust them, why are we asking them for help?
Maybe we should be asking them to back off!
I know some of us still believe that a different leader could be trusted. Perhaps we could get some honest politicians in who will fix it the right way. However, as long as you have government involvement, there is always a chance for corruption. At least, one would have to argue this if one believes corruption currently exists.
Can you name a HONEST politican, once they are elected,If their lips move they are lying, the lobbiest and all the other money makes it so easy to be bought. Why would anyone want to be a politican?
Precisely. We have had opportunity to drill for oil and passed it up for the environmentalists.
We protect the trees, the owls, the whales, but we abort babies. Somehow, I think we have gotten a lil mixed up. What's to be valued.
Now, as for the politicians... the great debate is on. Gas, jobs, and money. (oh yeah, health care ) Good luck folks. Believe who and what you want. We're up for some tears and screaming.
People spend all their health trying to get wealth, then all their wealth trying to get their health.
We scream about everything. We argue and blame the government, and then want the government to bail us out. INSANITY!!!
There needs to be a balance.
We need to protect the environment AND drill for oil. It can be done.
Its the fault of both sides.
And the blame game.
I think a huge part of the problem is partisan politics. The dems blame bush, the bushites blame the demos who support the environmentalists.
We need to see that dem or gop, conservative or liberal. is just a power struggle and neither offers any answers.
Neither side is interested in truth or in progress, only in power.
I dont think either side is right.
Me thinks...
People get ready. No matter who ends up with the Presidency, every person better re-evaluate their habits.
What do you want vs. what do you need!
Congress, Senate, Big Gov... or perhaps we should think about ourselves wanting everything for nothing. We want a raise, but we don't want anybody else to make money.
Think about this: How do you treat the person who serves you food, who checks you out in the supermarket, or at any retail store?
Anybody think that there should be some change in all of our attitudes
or is it just the few?
:( Sad to say, but while we point fingers at those who have, and blame those in power, we must look back at ourselves and think...
Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda....
well, since Lowes we had Walgreens come. Boy, lots of good pay there, not. As for as Creekstone is concerned, i remember the city telling us how great and all the jobs and no smell. well, there is no truck wash as promised so they drive dripping through town and smell it up, and as for jobs all i see is our minority base up in this town, gang graffiti all over, ducks and chickens in yards and blaring siesta music in my neigborhood, so what did we gain, and they get yet another big break on their water bill while we citizens got ours doubled, how nice. i alos remember when creekstone was coming in the city workers were told their names better not show up on any petitions, hows that for GOOD management. Negativity prevails here because our city is not being run correctly or by good people, they cover up and lie even to state entities,so it is called what it is.
Post a Comment