Wednesday, October 29, 2008

forum winners and losers

The Forum for the candidates at Cowley College lasted about 3 hours lats night.
It was a good "debate."
It was sponsored and held by KSOK and newscow. Nearly all the candidates were there.
Ill have a report in the paper today about what they said. They didn't say anything different than what they normally say.

It was interesting that Greta Goodwin thinks the state economy will be good when the reports come in, and that there may not be a great deficit. All the other state candidates, rep and dem, all say they think there will be a shortfall and there will be some slashing of budgets or more taxes.

Anyways, I thought I would just comment briefly on the presentations themselves.
Here are my winners of the debate: This is based solely on performance, not on the issues themselves.

Sheriff Don Reed and Prosecutor Chris Smith are unopposed. Both gave good, short, presentations.

County Commission
District 2, Carmelita Clarkson vs. Alan Groom.
I would give the edge to Groom. He is just a bit smoother in his delivery. He also was willing to say "i don't know." He seemed more relaxed than the incumbent.

District 3, Gary Wilson vs. Bob Vogele.
Both handled themselves very well. Wilson is a bit more knowledgeable on the issues and seems to have confidence in himself and his views. Both did well. Slight edge to Wilson because of experience. There also appeared to be a mutual respect between them that was not apparent in most other candidates.

Statehouse, State Rep. District 78.
Ed Trimmer vs. John Whittington.

Trimmer in a blowout. Trimmer was a debate coach for many years and it shows. He is smooth, articulate, knows the issues. Thinks on his feet well, has definite opinions but is not abrasive. Whittington was nervous, did not articulate himself well, and did not seem as well-prepared. When questions were read Trimmer was ready with an answer. Whittington had to think, and had trouble giving answers.

State Rep District 79
Kasha Kelley vs. Gene Burr.
Its a shame someone has to lose this one. Both were articulate, personable, connected with the audience. Kelley is just a little smoother and just a little more experienced at public speaking.
Id give her the edge because of that.
Burr is a good candidate though. If he loses hopefully he will run for something else. He would be good in public office.

State Senate District 32. Greta Goodwin vs. Steve Abrams.
Goodwin has served many years and does very well at public speaking. Abrams has years on the state board of ed and is also a very good speaker.
Abrams defended himself well against the mail-smear campaign that claims he is anti-science, anti-education and for book banning. As he said, if you tell a big enough lie long enough, people will believe it.
Goodwin seemed more political of the two. She is a scrapper.
Slight edge to Abrams as he was able to turn even pointed questions to the direction he wanted to go in.

State board of ed.
Paul Casanova vs. David Dennis.

They are vying for the spot Steve Abrams is leaving to run for the senate.
Edge to Casanova. He was more personable, connected better with the audience. He was just talking to the audience, while Dennis was giving answers. Dennis' military background showed, but it came off as just a bit too "official."

U.S. Congress
Don Betts
also showed up near the end and gave a presentation. He made must of the fact that incumbent Todd Tiahrt was not there and has refused to debate.
Betts makes a very good presentation. Speaks very well and has passion.
Tiahrt wasn't there, so Betts probably made some points with people who are undecided.

That's my take on the long evening.

30 comments:

Anonymous said...

BS alert.

Abrams has said that only 20% of Kansans need to go to college.

Abrams has firmly supported an anti-science anti-evolution educational policy.

How can he deny that? He was interviewed on national radio by NPR. There are recordings all over the web.

If 20% college in Kansas (the rest of the U.S. is 50%+) isn't anti-education, then what is it?

He seems like a really good speaker and a real nice man, but I don't want him making any decisions for the schools. Or anywhere for that matter.

Kind of like Goodwin thinking the economy is good in Kansas. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that there are serious economic problems in the U.S. and Kansas is worse than average.

Doesn't she read the paper or watch the news?

Kansas deserves better.

Anonymous said...

Maybe you should go over to Byte Daily... you'd fit right in with the rest of the whiny liberals over there.

bytedaily said...

@ 1:49

The poster was giving their opinion about the debate. It's still free speech even when people don't agree with you!

If you have a problem with me or my blog you can take it over there. This needs to stay off others blogs - it's disrespectful.

Anonymous said...

I agree! When did it become okay to trash someones opinion because you don't agree with it? You didn't even bother to discuss the issues at hand- James is talking about the debate, Why don't you start!

I've been sitting her watching people bash this blog owner almost into the ground, I'm not for sure the obsession... But your starting to look silly bashing this person over and over again. Again- Why can't people have differing opinions?

Anonymous said...

They can as long as they aren't Christian or Republican.

Anonymous said...

i have an opinon on just about everything but i know when to keep it to myself

Anonymous said...

Well, Mr. Byte,
I don't have any sympathy for you.

you kind of ask for it when you feel free to "advertise" your blog under the radar. Piggybacking on jj's and David's blogs.

Deal with it. or just remove your free advertising and let your blog find it's way on the web like everyone else's.

Anonymous said...

Well, other than you calling me a whiny liberal, do you have any opinion at all about it?

Is the Kansas economy in great shape?

Should only 20% of Kansans go to college, where none of the other states say that?

Should we choose to teach our kids that the earth is 3,000 years old and that our creator is messing with our minds just trying to make the unbelievers think it is older than that with tree rings, freeze layers in the arctic and the like?

Is Abrams anti education?

And if not, then what kind of stuff are you smoking?

Traveler Editor said...

Should only 20% of Kansans go to college, where none of the other states say that?
Should we choose to teach our kids that the earth is 3,000 years old and that our creator is messing with our minds


Abrams has never said any of those things.
He is right, if you tell a big enough lie often enough, people will believe it.
He never said only 20 percent should go to college either.
He did say that tech ed should be given more support and the two could go together.

Curious said...

Editor:

Liked the run-down of each race and your opinion of each candidate's performance.

Good work.

Anonymous said...

Deal with it. or just remove your free advertising..


Wow I remember when all the graffiti and immigrant talk was going on at the Traveler forum a certian blog owner ( I hate bringing them into this- But it's a fact) kept coming on all the threads on the Traveler talk and saying " this is being discussed at ......" and left a link to their blog. But that was okay, No one questioned it or said a thing..... I don't see BD doing anything wrong ( JJ must not either, Nor has David had a problem)- BD is intitled to their opinions on here, Regurdless if you agree or not.

The problem is all political and the fact that you don't agree with what they're saying.... Okay, Then why do you go over there? Just stay off the board and stop following them around bashing them. Because your not even making any intelligent arguments.

Just stay off their board- Problem solved.

I don't think JJ needs you to defend him, If BD does something he will deal with it. Until then- Just please grow up and stop acting immature following them around bashing and bashing. It's getting a bit old.

They opened a whole new thread so you could discuss your issues with them over there... And all you've done is spam and slam- Slam by calling names... Not even a real discussion. How can any take you seriously?

Anonymous said...

"Abrams has never said any of those things."

I think the 20% was in your paper about 4 or 5 months ago, jj.

Did he say the earth is only a few thousand years old and the clear evidence to the contrary is just God screwing with us?

It doesn't matter. The group he permitted to rewrite the state science curriculum (Science Association for Mid-America) says exactly that.

He presided over and enabled the Board of Education to make Kansas a laughingstock of the country.

"He is right, if you tell a big enough lie often enough, people will believe it."

Who, though, is telling the lie?
Not me.

Is this the guy to elect?

Anonymous said...

Has the kiddie parade winners made the paper yet? Haven't seen anything yet? Thx!

Anonymous said...

As flawed as Abrams' religious views are, he is still a better candidate, and will get the conservative vote, including mine. His religious views will not matter in his official capacity, so who cares what his personal beliefs are. His opponent is just trying a smear campaign because it is the only thing left in her arsenal.

And I am neither a chistian nor a republican.

Anonymous said...

"His religious views will not matter in his official capacity,"

You might not think so, but he sure didn't separate his official capacity from personal religious views when he was on the Board of Education.

I have nothing to do with Goodwin, in fact it is a really hard choice to know who would be better (or worse). My big concern is that Abrams is probably energetic enough to get things done but would take a wacky direction again.

Goodwin would be gridlocked.

Gridlocked is better.

bytedaily said...

Abrams and Kelley are just mouth pieces for Americans for Prosperity.

Alan Cobb, the Kansas director of AFP is often mentioned with Abrams and Kelley. Cobb is a former employee of Koch. Koch founded Citizens for a sound economy before it split into AFP.

Koch has an anti-environmental agenda, AFP promotes it and our legislators sign pledges to a lobbyist group.Steve Abrams signed the pledge. To Kelley's credit I haven't found anything that suggests she has signed it.

Kelley however is linked with Cobb on TABOR, the budget transparency bill and possibly more. Google this phrase: "Americans for Prosperity Budget Transparency" or "Alan Cobb TABOR". Did we elect Kelley or AFP?

In a Traveler archived article Kelley was quoted saying: "I appreciate what he does on behalf of Kansas taxpayers," she said of Cobb.

Kelley said her involvement with a local chapter would be limited to providing names of possible participants.

I already expect backlash for this post but it is more important for me that people know the truth. Everything I have said is well documented on the internet.

Traveler Editor said...

It doesn't matter. The group he permitted to rewrite the state science curriculum (Science Association for Mid-America) says exactly that.
>>>

You need to go read those science standards.
Not what the "science" association says, but what the actual standards said.
It was never reported accurately by anyone.

Anonymous said...

So byte daily is attacking Kelley for associating with someone who has a republican agenda????

WELL DUHH!!! She is a republican after all.

AND wasn't it just a week or so ago that you got all over the right because they had the audacity to care that Obama was ASSOCIATING HIMSELF WITH A KNOWN DOMESTIC TERRORIST???

Let's see... Republican, OR TERRORIST???? hmmmmm tough one. I think I'll go with the republican over the murdering terrorist.

You only whine that it's unfair when it's against your candidate.

Anonymous said...

"It was never reported accurately by anyone."

So whats the story?

bytedaily said...

@ 8:09

I need to correct you. First, I am not attacking anyone. I am raising questions and concerns I have with Kelley and Abrams.

As a voter in this community I have the right to question the motives or intentions our of leaders and those running for office.

I don't question the Republican agenda but I do question the well documented relationship with an extreme right wing lobbyist group.

Do you want your elected officials making decisions based on what a lobbyist group thinks is proper or what is right for Kansans?

Traveler Editor said...

"It was never reported accurately by anyone."

So whats the story?

>>>
What the science standards abrams liked said was ... and im paraphrasing heavily here ...
that evolution is an important part of science that explains the development of life.

it goes on to say that evolution is controversial when it comes to explaining the origin of life.
it also says there are "other" theories ... but does not mention them.

thats it basically ..
i would think you could still find them on the kansas state board of ed site.

Traveler Editor said...

on kelley and burr.
they do get some help from the americans for prosperity group.
they are not an extremist group.
they are a group that is against taxes. is that so bad?

the dems also have interest groups.
i dont see how its fair for the dems to get money from interest groups and not the pubs.

kelley and abrams are decent people.
they are not members of extremist or terrorist groups. if you really think that, i dare you to call them up and tell them your name and ask them .

it does bother me for people to spread lies about them. .. or anyone .. someone was spreading the lie that goodwin was deathly ill ..

someone asked, who is spreading them.
the lies on abrams are coming from a liberal group that is a special interset group that does not have to say where it got its money.
the lies on those flyers are incredible ...
how can anyone object to abrams getting a little help from AFP while goodwin is getting help in spreading blatant lies ... and we cant even know who is paying for it??

bytedaily said...

@ 6:42

They are not members of extremist or terrorist groups.

This is fairly infantile, never did I say they were members of a terrorist group.

I am simply asking why they choose to align themselves with a well known, extreme right wing lobbyist group.

In your own paper it states that AFP has helped both Kelley and Abrams with mailers. Koch has donated to both Kelley and Abrams. Abrams signed a legislative pledge and speaks at grassroots meetings for AFP. Kelley has spoken for AFP and has supported AFP issues(budget transparency and TABOR).

How is questioning a relationship, that is documented, spreading lies?

Traveler Editor said...

the problem i had was calling them an extremist group.
i wasnt so much thinking of your post :)

bytedaily said...

Ok.

I strongly disagree with AFP's extreme right wing agenda but I wouldn't stoop so low to call them terrorists!

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Anonymous said...

since when did it become an extreme right wing agenda to try to limit taxes? sounds like something everyone who works for a living would benefit from.

Anonymous said...

Mr Byte. Please do yourself a big favor and call Alan Cobb, or better yet, attend a meeting. All you'll find is that they're worried about how to fund the programs YOU care about, and how to save YOU money as a taxpayer, and how to protect YOU from eager spending legislators of all stripes. I know it's fun to make someone out to be a demon, but please go educate yourself about them first. You'd probably agree with a lot of what they say. Just because David Seeton doesn't like them doesn't mean they're a bad group. Most taxpayers from both parties agree with the message about preserving YOUR tax dollars. OR maybe I"m all wet and you'd just like them thrown to the wind hoping they land in good programs. If so, then you have every right to oppose AFPs goals. A note to all, just because a newspaper editor classifys a group a certain way, doesn't mean that's who the group is. Mr. Seeton rails about AFP giving its list out, but the D party can put $60k and $20k into Goodwin and Burr campaigns and no one asks who funded that. Isn't it all just amazing? How about a little respect for folks, even if you can't see eye to eye. No more silly name calling.

Anonymous said...

@1:25 PM

I...hate to break it to you, but you are wasting your words on Bytedaily.

bytedaily said...

@ 1:25

I have read many articles concerning AFP, from their 2009 Kansas budget proposal to the devastating affects TABOR had in Colorado.

I have read articles detailing their position on unions, privatizing social security, environmental laws and deregulation.

I've even read articles penned by Alan Cobb.

I think I have read enough material to form an educated opinion of AFP.

Let's just agree to disagree. I'll stand by my concern while you attend an AFP meeting, okay?

Anonymous said...

Exactly what were the devestating impacts of a spending limit in Colorado?