Here are a few random thoughts for a Friday morning.
I talked with Mell Kuhn yesterday. We couldn't connect for a full interview, but he is willing to answer questions. I hope to get to that even today if possible.
But we did talk for a few minutes. He feels he is actually helping the city. He said he has done a lot of work for the city, but also said he has saved the city money.l
One thing to consider is that he specializes in working on sewer plants and has worked on several around the state.
This bidding process is pretty well out in the open.
Got to hand it to Mell. He says what he thinks. He told me that if he were doing anything illegal, he would not be doing it out in the open.
He said he also does some consulting work on the phone with people at the sewer plant at no charge.
Also chatted with City Manager Steve Archer after the meeting Tuesday. He says they take extra care to make sure its all legal because he is the Mayor. Archer was a little indignant as well. He feels his own integrity is being questioned as well.
The players seem willing to put the cards on the table. Ill facilitate that as soon as i can.
As usual, I am not taking sides. Ill gather the information and leave it to the readers to decide for themselves.
Im still kinda amazed at the live blogging, and how well it was received. No one has commented on my idea of doing a general live blog Saturday. If you are going to show up let me know.
Anyway, I plan on doing it again Monday at the work session.
Work session meetngs are much less formal than regular meetings. There may be 3 conversations going on at once and it can get hard to follow.
Im sure many of you have blogs. Send me your blog addresss - or post it here - an I'll put a link to it. Im going to compile a list of local blogs here.
We have had our share of controversy lately. The trial and the death penalty, crash recovery fees, water bills, hospital boards, mayors .... the list goes on.
Actually I think this is good. Stuff is getting out in the open and being debated.
The controversy is not a problem. I think it is part of the solution really.
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50 comments:
Legal and ethical are two entirely different things. Just the appearance of wrongdoing is too much. It's the same reason the city has such a strong nepotism policy.
Just the appearance of wrongdoing is too much.
That's something for the public to decide.
I think we should try to show as much of it as we can. I am not intending to take sides though:)
"That's something for the public to decide."
I am the public. At least a part of it. And I have decided. The appearance of wrongdoing or a conflict of interest should be enough to put a stop to it for the sake of ethics. Even if the mayor is as upright as he says he is, what's to stop a future commissioner from taking advantage of their position due to the precedent being set by Kuhn?
Dear Anonymous'
Why do you hide your name? Why can you not say to him in public what you shout to those around from behind a wall. Your face hidden.
The beauty of being able to accuse and slander with not one shred of fact is again thanks to the men and women fighting over all the world to give you that freedom.
Do you think they knew that when they packed their bags that this is how you would use that gift they are keeping safe for you.
FREEDOM
We all live and work in this town. If I published my name my business would suffer.
I have mixed feelings on this. But I do think if you want to get ahead in life - being your own boss is a good way to do it. Also, in a town as small as this, and with the great majority of the public being inactive in local politics and issues, if you disqualify all the people that either own a business or are in management at a local business or industry, you have disqualified many who would be good public officials.
One plus for Kuhn too, if you have sewage in your basement or around your house and you need someone - call his business and he will send someone to take care of it. He has sent guys to help at my houses on Sundays, holidays, evenings - they will help. So he is golden with me.
But if you're smart, you'll shop around...others will do the same or better for less.
Dear Anonymous
Understood
" Archer was a little indignant as well. He feels his own integrity is being questioned as well."
so what we have a right to question them without them being indignant , after all i thouhgt they worked for us
The facts about what has gone on during the past two years have left a sour taste in many people's mouths about several of the commissioner.
The basic mistrust is a direct result of several of their attitudes and what they have said. Mr. Kuhn may be honest and all of his business dealings fair BUT the way he has treated people in public meetings and the things he has said on the record have created the cynical attitude.
He has been rude, arrogant and bullish. Has he been picked on...no, he asked to be elected and to represent all of us. He, Scott and Dotty started this when they first took office and unfortunately no one has been able to turn the tide.
The hospital issue is a prime example...no one knows why the need to rework the board, no one knows why now. His comment that the hospital couldn't run without him makes me furious.
People that question the hospital board are forgetting that those board members are there without pay, away from their jobs they do that do pay and trying to make sure the hospital moves forward...not just the physical plant but the entire treatment of any citizen that walks in those doors.
The comments by Mr. Kuhn are unfortunte and the the commissioners that are usually associated with him need to reexamine their loyalities. Now, with the resignation of Scott Margolius' father-in-law from the board the entire thing is looking
even more discerning.
Mr. Kuhn may also not rig the bids in his favor but he can make it very hard for those that might get the bid to be successful...he is the boss and he can question and demand things be redone until the cost is so extravagant that no one will bid again.
I have always questioned my local officials but questioning and being very fearful of what they are doing are two different things. I seriously fear the goals of several and they have yet to prove me wrong.
Kanyon,
Climb off your soapbox. I made the first and third comments, and I didn't "accuse or slander" anyone.
Nowhere did I say that he had done anything wrong. I said the appearance of wrongdoing is enough for it to stop. Most towns forbid such activity simply because it keeps the public from thinking things might be unfair. The current commission has no such qualms. And don't talk to me about fighting for freedom when you have no idea who I am or what I might have done in my life.
" Archer was a little indignant as well. He feels his own integrity is being questioned as well."
so what we have a right to question them without them being indignant , after all i thouhgt they worked for us
>>>>
I think both are within their rights.
both to ask and for the askee to feel offended.
thats democracy
Kanyon,
Climb off your soapbox.
Getting off
I had just gotten off the phone with a soldier calling me from Iraq moments before and had been reading the blog to him,
I am sorry that I offended you that was not my purpose. It is true I don't know who you are or what you have done in your life and I am not saying you don't have a right to speak your thoughts. I just wish that people would find out the questions and the answers. So that the bitternes would not be there.
We are one community facing and about to face even harder times. I am not doing the can't we all just get along, I guess that I just have a hard time with the whole notion that we can't question without anger.
I am a very involved in the things that I talk about, and I will get more involved in more things
But as I have said many times I don't know anything about the bids. Or who does them but at the last meeting one of the commission said that it would all be available.
Does anyone know if any other contractor has filed any complaints over this or not getting jobs because of this.
I would think that the other contractors bidding might be the one with the biggest problem if there was one.
The tactics Jay and Gene and their cronies are using to try to get elected as they have their good old boy buddies stand up in public meetings and snipe behind anonymous in the blogs tell exactly what kind of people they are. Kuhn is not running for reelection. They are running and the spotlight should be on them and their dealings. People should be asking why Gene no longer is paid staff of the school district.
Kayon said:
" I just wish that people would find out the questions and the answers. So that the bitternes would not be there."
and
"I guess that I just have a hard time with the whole notion that we can't question without anger."
Maybe you are projecting anger where none lies??? Go back and read my posts and pretend I'm smiling. There... see... no anger. Just pointing out that the appearance of wrongdoing could be taken out of the situation by having Kuhn remove his company from the bidding as long as he is Mayor. After all, he got along just fine not working for the city before he was elected.
And for the person ranting about Gene and Jay, I have no idea who those people are, and I can assure you I am speaking only MY mind, not someone else's.
My mind is not for rent, to any god or government. Hey, I think I'll use that.
If all of you people are so untrusting of the city and who is doing their work....then go down there and ask to see the files. It is part of the open records law. There are some jobs that take a specialist to do which therefore only a few people bid on to do.
I am by no means taking Mr. Kuhn's side but did you ever consider that perhaps he did not know the process of bidding for a city job until he stepped into office? hummm that could explain why he's picked up business.
I think the biggest issue is that because Mr. Kuhn tells you exactly what he thinks you don't like it. However you also wouldn't like him if he took the job and did nothing or said nothing.
Perhaps many of you that know so much would run for office, volunteer to help out in the city you'd see things from a whole different side.
They won't run. They will continue to complain because they don't like Mel. They will continue to complain about something else long after Mel is gone.
Yeah, that's right, the problems of this town exist because we complain, and not the other way around.
(sarcasm)
Well you must admit. If the energy spent complaining were spent looking for solutions ... maybe problems would get solved.
Steve Archer: " Archer was a little indignant as well. He feels his own integrity is being questioned as well."
Mell Kuhn: "He said he also does some consulting work on the phone with people at the sewer plant at no charge."
There are two issues here:
1 Steve Archer. Really, honestly, the ethics issue can't be new material. It is a standard in most towns the size of Ark City.
He shouldn't get his hackles up when questioned about it, because there does seem to be an ethics question raised with regard to the current Mayor and a previous Mayor.
He needs to be a professional City Manager about this and understand the issue, without just defensively taking it personally and trying to obstruct inquiry.
Mell Kuhn. If Mell understood what the problem was, he would have never answered in the way he did, where says he maintains a special relationship with the sewer department (with his free consulting and such).
If there is a textbook definition of an ethical conflict of interest, then that would be it.
The conflict arises in providing paid services to a city and using one's position to obtain a special relationship or special planning, design or other special knowledge which would not be available to others who desire to do business with the City.
It can't come down to only if someone complains. Who in their right mind would complain about a competitive disadvantage caused by the Mayor of a town?
That is a sure way to skunk one's future chances.
There shouldn't be a witch-hunt. But if the City doesn't already have conflict of interest (ethics) prohibitions, they should put them in place for the next Mayor.
The other thing that really, really needs to be done is a seminar from the City Attorney to any and all new hires or elected officials (appointees as well) educating them on what cannot be done in their position.
This could be put together in a PowerPoint presentation, so when someone representing the City as an employee or official gets into stupid trouble, they can't just feign ignorance.
No using a badge to enforce parking issues if you are a Commissioner. No inside information and then bidding on a project. That sort of thing.
"Well you must admit. If the energy spent complaining were spent looking for solutions ... maybe problems would get solved."
Don't look now, but problems are getting solved. Ark City is way better for it.
Candidate Snell is "Jean" not Gene.
He retired in good standing. HE has helped to build several of the Habitat homes through on site labor and by building items that he donates for fund aising events for the Arkansas City Affiliate.
He's had a good life. He's not a native of AC having come here to serve as Superintendent of USD470.
He and his wife opted to reamin a part of this community after completing their working careers.
As for his candidacy, with the many challenges (real ones and not the imagined or manufactured ones created on the blogs) it might be a huge asset to have someone who knows how local units of government operate. He knows the budgeting process. He knows open meetings law. He knows intergovernmental relations (i.e. local to state to federal workings).
Things are going to get rough in this nation. The communities who remain unsettled about their local ledership are likely to suffer the most.
I don't know if he will be a good commissioner. I do know he is a good man with knowledge wthat should be harnessed, especially when it's for free.
There may be absolutley nothing improper going on. Kuhn might be helping the town. Perhaps he is working at cost, or even taking a loss.
That is not the issue.
As has been said over and over on this blog, just the appearance of impropriety must be avoided. It smacks of the "Good Old Boy Network," and smells of "Cigar filled back rooms, and secret deals."
Most towns do not allow this type of arrangement for good reason.
Robert E. Dylan said...
Well you must admit. If the energy spent complaining were looking for solutions ... maybe problems would get solved.
There is part of the problem, you say complaining, someone else could be looking at it as constructive critisim.
Too many people always look at every thing the wrong way, from the bottom to the top, we seperate ourselves socialy and then take aim or think someone is aiming at you, when in all people arelooking for an understanding. The real question is how much does it take to make all those who voice concern understand what they see.
That is the real break down when it comes to public and privite sectors in small communities. I wish that before you say or think someone is complaining or doing something you question, stop and take two min. to think about it and two more to rethink and two more min before you react and after youo get through ask yourself am I being part of the solution or part of the problem for progress and the put yourself in the other persons shoe and do the same. Check for this after all that am I thinking with my head or my heart and then what do I really want and am I addressing this in the right manner.
Then you will know if what you say has merit. I am not saying to say or do nothing at all but make sure you are on the right track. Even in a small community there is always something you still do not know but need to know. and the best way to find out is go straight to the source in this case all the governing body meetings as possible that why legilaters made the open meeting act so you could hear first hand and ask questions face to face and if someone thinks it may hurt thier business have someone you trust sit in for you and ask your quiestions!!!
N.N.T.R.
The other thing that really, really needs to be done is a seminar from the City Attorney to any and all new hires or elected officials (appointees as well) educating them on what cannot be done in their position
Good point It would look alot better to all voters if that happened. It just does not set well with me that those who seek office only show or attend meetings with a seiruos attitude just months before elections are held and miis ouss out on in this case years of what seems to be bad governing by past two mayors, the time to stop the ball from rollinhg down hill or the best chance for minimal damage is when it starts and public opinion seems to say this started two years ago.
It's to bad that they stop the program years ago to trian those who wanted to take leadership roll in this communityyears ago ( those who seved on the commision in the mid 8o's to earlly 90's will know what this program was)
"It's to bad that they stop the program years ago to train those who wanted to take leadership roll"
It's just as well. The "training" was this pop-culture fluff that was fairly worthless. Ie.: having people standing on towels in the room scooting one towel over to another to show how they have to cooperate with others.
Not much substance, and anyone serious would ditch that sort of thing in a heartbeat.
What the City Attorney should put together is a series of slides with bulletpoints like:
"Personal use of City Property"
explain what can be done and what can't.
"Ethics Standards" etc.
Put it in a Powerpoint that could be stored on the web or CD and department heads could play it back at any time to new hires, current employees or officials, without needing to set up formal presentations each time it was needed.
I wish a dr. or anyone even an anonymous could point us in the right direction. Tell us on the hospital board what is happening to the hospital board.
I did not and still do not understand the need for an ordinance that allows the mayor to remove a citizen volunteer from a board they have asked to be on and are volunteering their efforts without cause.
I was very happy to see that Commissioner Margolious fought the Mayor to get a super majority on that issue. Meaning that it takes 4
commissioners to agree.
But shortly after that there's a resignation, and more problems.
they spoke very strongly at the town meeting that it wsa not good policy to have commissioners (I think they meant Mayor Kuhn) on that board. But if memory serves me they have always had commissioners on the hospital board.
But if is not a voting memeber how can he be controling that board.
Why can't the members of the hospital board go to the other commissioners and make their issues known.
When medicare makes the big change and it is coming soon where there will only be one class 1 hospital per county.
I don't want to see our 29 million dollar investment that will cost 90million over thirty years become a really famcy quick care unit.
We passed the 1/2 cent sales tax to get the hospital. Mayor Kuhn said at the town hall meeting 'that that we wouldn't be getting this hospital if it weren't for him'.
Since I am on the outside of this looking in does anyone have insight. Will this be the hospital of technology, and reasearch, we were promised with room to grow, that will draw doctors in straight from school. Will this be the hospital that the 1/2 cent sales tax and the citizens are expecting?
"or anyone even an anonymous could point us in the right direction."
Aha! See there?
Probably the only way you will get the real story is through anonymous.
The problem as I see it, is that there are hospital board members who are upset, but they will not go on the record or speak out.
They may not like what is happening, but they may not feel they can do anything about it.
Yes! Even an old dog can learn new tricks.
I am very new to blogging like this is day 20 or so....
I called an old and trusted friend (she lives out of state and is almost 90) who said just because you don't know who called to tell you that your husband if having an affair doens't mean that he isn't.
So I repected the one who wrote that their business could suffer. And I understand that grey is a very real color.
They may not like what is happening, but they may not feel they can do anything about it.
James
Why can't they do anything about it.
What could possibly be more important than the trust that the citizens gave in this project by backing it with our votes and our tax dollars.
If they can't then tell us what is going on. Why they feel that a non voting memenber of a board can and is controlling it.
What the City Attorney should put together is a series of slides with bulletpoints like:
CA....perhaps needs to study some of this stuff up, otherwise....
If CA knew... this mess should not be happening.
If CA knew and acted perhaps CC and CM would be in better standing.
(perhaps <:( )
the city has such a strong nepotism policy.
HA
It is only enforced on at at whim basis. There are relatives working on over the city. Just because they are in different departments and even that is not always the case doesn't mean they can't influence things.
Its either snowing outside or a cotton truck overturned
"CA....perhaps needs to study some of this stuff up, otherwise....
If CA knew... this mess should not be happening.
If CA knew and acted perhaps CC and CM would be in better standing.
(perhaps <:( )"
The real big surprise is that the Mayor doesn't know he is not supposed to do this and the City Manager thinks the conflict of interest query is something to take personally and to "get mad" about.
If you look closely at the people who run Ark City, you will see people who don't really have any outside professional experience other than what they learned on the job in Ark City. It shows.
But there is no reason that these people can't eventually learn the issues that make a city run and can make Ark City comparable in policies and standards with other towns of its size.
When the Hospital contract is bid:
1. and the local contractors are selected by the one who won the bid
2. then if Kuhn is one of the companies selected by the winning bidder, then there you have it sports fans.
Can't prove anything, but who wouldn't come to the bidding table without a plan?
Maybe that is why the board change.
(think)
That are classes through KLM and other material avaiable to at least learn more about the process. Also a ton of info on kansas.gov
12:29
Is there a way to get that reviewed by the ethics commision?
They gave opinions on similar issues.
Will the good Mayor either commit to doing no subcontracting work under the winning bidder or remove himself from any hospital decisions?
Needs to be one or the other.
I guess the first step is to see when Kuhn filed his SSI:
Can anyone come up with a copy with the filing date?
http://ethics.ks.gov/EthicsSite/pdfs/localssiform.pdf
Apparently what he is doing is way out of line and may be a crime.
K.S.A 75-4306. Penalties for violations; severability. (a) Violation of K.S.A. 75-4304 or 75-4305, and amendments thereto, or failure to make any disclosure of substantial interests required by K.S.A. 75-4302a is a class B misdemeanor.
Beating a horse...
After a very cold response from those who received secret texts from Kuhn (mostly docs), Kuhn knew he would have to go another way. Get the docs out of the picture, and slide (slither) onto the board under the guise "There has always been a member on the board." Fine. Make that member Patrick or Joel.
With regard to Kelly leaving the board, Scott and co. are not idiots and have a plan. Is Kasha involved??? You bet. Is Intermark involved? You bet.
This will only get more ridiculous. I am inside, but have to limit what I say as very few are in the know. Call me a conspiracy theorist, or whatever you want, but something must done by ethical, moral people - soon.
I am inside, but have to limit what I say as very few are in the know.
>>
That may be the problem.
Why are board members not speaking out?
Any board members ... give me a call.
This needs to be in the public's view.
1:43am, [James or anyone else]
If you are in the know, please do tell and get this in the open to be dealt with before the elections and before anything gets voted on.
People have a right and need to know IF there is anything going on behind the scenes.
Its our tax dollars and our trust of leadership thats on the line.
On one side Kuhn and city manager say that all this has been looked into and everything is fine.
On the other side, people are saying things could be going on, need to look more into it, etc.
As a candidate, I am growing increasingly tired/frustrated of innuendo and claims of wrongdoing by people who are not willing to step up and get things dealt with.
Maybe its because of an election cycle, maybe there is truth, who knows because I certainly don't.
These kinds of things are what divides communities, creates distrust, and keeps genuine progress from happening.
And while we are fighting amonst ourselves over politics, who is keeping an eye on national trends that could have dire consequences for our community?
Not trying to run you off, but lets get all the cards and players on the table or at least to James so that when people go to the polls, they will know the truth, whatever that truth may be.
I did not throw my name in the hat for this. If this is what its all about than I truly do not want to be a part of it.
Sincerely,
Penny W.
I believe it has to do with class structure. Most of the players involved (docs, administrators, Trustees, board members) make a very comfortable living, and as such could care less what transpires because nothing that will happen affects their home lives. Life goes on as usual, and if an (allegedly) unethical fortne is pulled down by someone, good for him. Those in the upper class tend not to be offended by what most of us see as unfair. To publically come forward, in their eyes, would just be one more headache, one more thing to worry about, which really doesn't matter to or (as previously stated)directly affect them. The most common reaction by these people as events unfold is an eye roll and head shake, maybe a shoulder shrug.
There are those - who shall remain nameless - who understand this, and plan to exploit this apathy as far as he, I mean they, can.
That last statement is so unfair. Why does it have to be about "class" since some of those very people you are bashing and saying they shrug their shoulders and walk away are the same people that spend hours donating time and money to this community and to helping the very people that can not afford to help themselves.
Yes, they do care and some were not ready to speak until they had heard and studied all sides of what was going on. They are wise enough to know that they need to have facts and not rumors or innuendos before they speak.
Most of what has been going on has caught them totally off guard. They also know that if they upset certain members of the commission or the city they will be labeled and fingers pointed at them as if they were evil. They have learned that they have to work together and be a team player...something not all have learned and when some don't get their way they get even.
Saying that they are "upper class" and it doesn't matter is so wrong. If it affects this community it affects them and many are not paid by the hour but when they leave the office, the clinic or their job to attend a meeting or promote the hospital that means the overhead continues but they are not bringing in any money. I know in your eyes they are already rich so what the heck. That mentality just shows what you don't know.
mel can save us from the evils but who will save us from HIM
mel can save us from the evils but who will save us from HIM
Traveler Editor said...
" Archer was a little indignant as well. He feels his own integrity is being questioned as well."
so what we have a right to question them without them being indignant , after all i thouhgt they worked for us
>>>>
I think both are within their rights.
both to ask and for the askee to feel offended.
thats democracy
February 27, 2009 3:37 PM
I THINK WHEN PUT IN A LEADERSHIP POSITION YOU LOSE YOUR RIGHT TO LOSE YOU COOL IN FRONT OF THE VERY PEOPLE YOU REPRESENT
3/2 @ 8:02
We are OBVIOUSLY referring to two different groups. I am not bashing any group, perhaps I belong to one?? The group to which I referred was not, absolutely not, blindsided by ANY of this. If you know of a group that was, then we are definitely on different pages.
I can say for a fact that most on the hospital board WERE blindsided and still not sure they understand the rationale if there is any behind the timing, the reasons, the need or the future for it. That is a fact.
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