I have been down on skateboarders from time to time. But I see some things coming together and it sounds good.
Ill give them some support in the paper and help publicize their efforts - that means organizers have to give me information about events and so forth.
But when they do bad, I'm gonna say that too.
They just need to stay out of my wife's flower beds at the library. She puts a lot of work into that, and her own money, so I hate to see it messed up.
Anyways, im all for them getting organized and building a park. Exhibitions would be good too. You could also have competitions.
Now is a good time. The city has property. The current commission wants to get rid of property.
I'm not sure the city will give any money, but they might give away a piece of ground.
Which brings me to the wild idea.
The city is going to shut down Summit Street for a few days while PrairieFest is going on in May.
That's not done too often.
But, what if we did that every now and then. Make Summit into a pedestrian area. Allow skateboarders that day. Bikes. Whatever. Just no cars.
Could be dangerous. But it could be good too.
Maybe a skateboarder festival?
Just a thought.
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That is the dumbest idea I've heard all day, but I've only been up for an hour. Blocking Summit for Prairie Fest is a dumb idea. Why disrupt the flow of traffic for the ten or so people who are going to attend that thing, and make everyone else find an alternate route. AND, it will make downtown businesses unaccessible. Dumb idea.
I love it when Summit gets blocked off. The city has done it a few times a year forever to my knowledge: Arkahlala, Ho-down, sidewalk sales, night out, and I'm sure there have been more. It's not like traffic has to go far. It moves one block in either direction with plenty of parking on side streets and parking lots. I also don't see how bringing people downtown could detour any business .
The dumbest idea the city has had about redistributing traffic was building the bypass. I know there is nothing that could be done about that now, but that hurt the downtown businesses. Case in point the mystery tour, one person said that they had never been to AC; they had always used the bypass.
Actually, I would really love it if they would block off 5th avenue from Summit to 2nd street on Fridays (or every other) from May to September. A mini festival with food vendors, crafts, maybe a band.... the skateboarders could have an exhibition at some point, too.
Yea that would great.
Even monthly would be cool.
Sounds like a project ... any volunteers ?
I bet the city would do it if someone organized it.
I lived in a city that blocked off a street every Thursday and had Motorcycles park along it so people could just walk around and look. They had a band and vendors.
It would be awesome if we did something like that, only maybe it could be classic cars. It would do nothing but promo the car show. Skaters could do demos along with other groups.
When I was living in town I talked to a few people about starting something like that. I would work on it but I'm not in town right now.
Is that street paved or brick?
I fail to see how a skateboard exhibition is going to accomplish anything positive. We all know what skateboarders do. They push off with one foot, flip their board around, and sometimes land on it. I couldn't do it, but I am not impressed by it. If we put them on display, it is likely to be detrimental to their cause, for several reasons.
Another point, anyone who lives on 2nd or A streets will give you their opinion of how life is when Summit is closed.
Well we all know what musicians do too.
No need for any of that either.
:)
I think what skaters do is amazing
In the last city I lived in, our Last Run car show was once a month May through September. Our Main Street was blocked off for it. Kinda like a block party on a monthly basis. Lots of fun.:}
Good points. I think I can reply to both at once. We're not talking Tony Hawk (NY Philharmonic), we're more along the lines of library garden vandals (2nd grade recorder recital). One is amazing, and we'd like to see, the other, we know what that's all about and we might take a pass.
Even Tony Hawk Had to start somewhere
"Good points. I think I can reply to both at once. We're not talking Tony Hawk (NY Philharmonic), we're more along the lines of library garden vandals (2nd grade recorder recital). One is amazing, and we'd like to see, the other, we know what that's all about and we might take a pass."
Okay, well, you can go ahead and get rid of the takedownclub or little league or middle school and high school sports so we don't have to endure watching future Al Bundys play that one game that defines the rest of their miserable existences.
Seriously, the kids who play the aformentioned sports have just as much chance (little to none)to be a Michael Jordan or a Barry Sanders as the skateboarders do to be a Tony Hawk. And that fact is completely and utterly irrelevant to their cause.
They are kids. They are willing to work to get what they want and that should be encouraged even if it means you have to suffer through an exhibition that isn't heaven forbid at the same level as Tony Hawk. In all the crap news that comes out of Ark City this is the item you choose to be completely negative about?
They already have the farmer's market. Why not have your shin dig on the same days? Oh, and it doesn't necessarily have to be the WHOLE downtown.
During the last national night out, the guy with the big outdoor movie screen said something about having movies once a month. Someone could call him and ask if he's still interested. I thought it was neato!
Did anyone see Hatteburg's people last night? They showed a man who renevated a downtown loft in Hutch. It was gorgeous! Anyway, he was trying to promote the restoration of those lofts in hopes people would rent them out (i.e. guests visiting town for a weekend, and such).
some good ideas here
keep it going
To February 9, 2009 12:06 PM,
Ever been to those 2nd grade recitals? No matter how horrible the music there is always a stage of proud faces from what they have accomplished and an audience of proud people happy for their children. There is the key words "For the children"! I take it you have no children and that you must have been born around age 20 do to your outlook on them.
So what do you guys think about a fund raiser exhibit at Wilson Park? We don't have any huge equiptment so it would have to be kind of small but maybe we could get a local band or two to play the stage while the kids show their stuff on a small street coarse we do have materials for. Maybe even a food vendor could get involved and a bake sale? We are also looking into mowing lawns for the city and having a skater auction for a days labor. We recently have heard that we have disappointed some with our lack of involvement in the community so if there is any community service we can help with we are all ears. We just ask that as we have this high standard put on us please remember to hold the other sports to the same. We are currently holding a can drive so bring your empty alluminum up to Bryant's or call me at 442-0030 and someone can come by and pick up whatever cans you have. Again thank you for the support
I'll be the first to sign up for lawn service. You'll be getting a call form me in the am
up for it said...
"Did anyone see Hatteburg's people last night? They showed a man who renevated a downtown loft in Hutch."
Well, here's an intersting tidbit. In a one on one conversation with the former (and short termed) City Manager, Doug Russell. he spoke of doing a very similar thing.
Many progressive cities are repopulating their downtown by developing upscale living quarters. It makes use of what is otherwise, underused space.
Thnk of it. Rather than the fracas over the window ordinance, one could have followed that vision. Surely, marketable lofts as living quarters would include functional windows.
Side issue (and way off topic but timely) Cowley voted for the McCain-Hockey Mom ticket in an overwhelming fashion.
Now it seems we have a hockey mom running for City Council. WERe we in love with hockey moms or just afraid of the paradigm shift.
What is wrong with hockey moms ay? Hockey mom implies mom who is involved which doesn't sound like a bad thing to me. Wish there were more hockey mom's in the world. In all honesty that's my kind of skating.
I think that means, someone is suggesting we vote for the local hockey mom. Not like a criticism or participating in another virtual argument.
In other words, maybe vote for a different kind of candidate or at least find out what she has to say. Only one female candidate for council so I don't have to say a name. Do I?
1. The only problem with re-developing the downtown buildings is they are already owned by people who see no future in improving the property.
Think about it. It took a city ordinance to get them to quit boarding up the windows.
Putting a half million into the AC Office Building?
A quarter million into the old bank?
Unlikely. No business plan, no funding, no lender support, and importantly no owner interest.
Good concept, but don't hold your breath waiting for it.
What they should do is close down 2 blocks of Summit, put support columns in the center of the street and roof over the top with a skylight ceiling. Put pavestone over the old street, close the ends with large glass walls and turn it into an open air shopping mall.
The whole country would see it as innovation, you could have concerts there and a food court in what was the center of Summit.
But don't hold your breath waiting for that one either. See number 1 above.
Doug Russell had a vision for making this town better. That vision included bringing in businesses such as Lowe's. Then we got a new council and they ran him off because he wouldn't bow down and kiss their feet like they thought he should.
It will be interesting to watch the town he moved to and see if he does good things for them.
It seems Ark City just can't stop shooting itself in the foot, even when it realizes "Hey... That hurts!". It started with loosing all the industry we used to have. Then more recently the packing house, and it has just snowballed from there.
Charles said: "WERe we in love with hockey moms or just afraid of the paradigm shift."
Are you implying that we voted against Obama because he is black (or half anyway)? Are you playing the race card? Do you honestly think it was because of his race, and not that he was THE most liberal democratic candidate in history? Just because I don't like Obama's idea of turning America into a socialist cesspool, does not make me racist. I think you are just paranoid.
But don't hold your breath waiting for that one either. See number 1 above.
THere's the challenge from the negativity corp.
do we have the intestinal fortitude to disprove it?
They are not really being negative in a sense though. It is a common attitude in Arkansas City.
We just need people who will follow through and make things happen.
Charles,
Why don't you look back at past elections and see how we voted for liberals then? You will likely find the same result. And OH MY GOD, they were probably white!
I think city (county or state, I'm not sure) codes are possibly holding back the loft idea. I have a vacant home which I was interested in renting out on a weekly or nightly basis. I was told this would qualify it as a "hotel" and quickly shut that idea down. I wonder if the city commission could cut us some slack here? If we were to implement some uptown shin dig's with bands, etc., there is a possibile market for such properties (especially downtown lofts).
I was told this would qualify it as a "hotel" and quickly shut that idea down. I wonder if the city commission could cut us some slack here?
>>>>
I think you should take this to the city commission.
I would think it would be more like a bed and breakfast than a hotel. But the city has the power to change the codes if that is the case.
There was some talk about that awhile back. I think there are some people living above stores downtown now. Maybe just 1-2.
Go to the city and ask, and if you dont like the answers then get on the commission agenda.
This is a problem that is definitely fixable.
Charles, could you please explain your point? I'm afraid we could draw some conclusions from your statement which you may not have been implying????
I know many "hockey mom" types in this town who are very involved with their families, children and community. Many of them are not caucasion, either.
I know our "hockey mom" who is running for city commish. She is a very nice lady with no alterior motives for running, other than a desire to serve her community. She is very open minded and has intentions of serving the people, not herself. She spends a lot of time educating herself on what is going on in our town and does her research.
It takes a lot of guts for someone with little "social standing" and money to run for such a position. I think she deserves a pat on the back and our support.
Zach, during lent last year I had some grade school students help me with a volunteer project on Fridays. After school, we would meet at a local park and pick up trash. Maybe your crew would like to get involved in this? We were not involvement with the city, we just did it. Perhaps it would send a good message to the city if the skaters were helping clean up the parks we currently have. It would show how well they could take care of a "future" park.
acflipside@gmail.com
People living downtown would do more to revitalize it than any amount of beautification......
That is why it was so vibrant back in the day.... people actually lived in apartments downtown. They could walk to the grocery store or hardware store. My great grandmother lived above the current H&R Block. My friends in highschool lived above Brick's in a pretty awesome apartment.
Many larger cities across the country are trying to build walkable communities and we already have one if we just utilized it. There is little reason why big city concepts can't apply to smaller towns.
Instead of focusing on what we don't have (ala Applebee's) we should be focusing on the uniqueness we do have. That is a selling point (a competitive advantage) not trying to have the same exact stores/restaurants they have in other places.
Also, I think that the city does not allow sidewalk seating. I think that is a shame it would be lovely to have some sidewalk seating on the side streets in the spring/summer.
If you really are looking for suggestions for the skaters to "show their commitment" to the town. I think you should choose projects that would break the negative stereotypes that currently exist about the skaters. Although many of those stereotypes are probably unfounded, some are not. I have seen several concrete benches and structures across town that have damage which is evident from skateboards. Maybe the skaters could invest some of their time in replenishing some of those things or adding to the aesthetic value of our community. I think picking up trash, helping tend to various parks and landscaping throughout the city is truly a good idea. It would show people they indeed do "care" as well as serve as possible preventive maintenance for future destruction.
Whatever you choose, there will have to be quality follow through. Making a commitment and not doing it, is far worse than doing/saying nothing to begin with. Good luck!
The way I understand it, a bed and breakfast is considered a "home business" if and when the owners live there. However, if the do not, it is considered a "hotel". This brings about codes such as wheelchair accesibility and sprinkler systems. Don't get me wrong, I understand the needs for these things in order to protect and serve the customers. It's just that these would require investments and financing, which let's face it, are hard to obtain in this day and age. I just wonder if there was a way to get around these things or if we need to take a different perspective as a community during these trying times. Many could use the extra income as we find ourselves out of work and without insurance, benefits and a weekly paycheck. Also, could help local downtown merchants as sales slow.
But who would be renting this home? I too have a home in AC that I have thought about renting like this. More like a time share then a hotel.
My family once went to Eureka Springs Arkansas on a family reunion each family rented a home for the week. It was great fun.
I guess my question is who would come to AC? People from the Casino?
There is a HUGE difference between Eureka Springs and Ark City. They have things to offer that we never will.
There is a HUGE difference between Eureka Springs and Ark City. They have things to offer that we never will.
>
and vice versa.
there are things here that are appealing.
it takes marketing and thinking.
two rivers. TWO rivers, and did i mention we have TWO RIVERS, and then of course, there are two rivers.
Charles, I am so glad you are in our community. Wish we had more like you.
It is sad that we don't have a canoe rental service. As I remember we went shopping played golf and went canoeing. I believe all those things could happen rather easily here.
@February 10, 2009 8:51 AM
I think that the damage to the concrete structures will go down once the kids have a lace to skate.
Sorry a place to skate.
I think Sheldon rents canoes, but I'm not sure.
I guess the main attraction for a "time share" type of thing would be around Arkalalah, Car show and Walnut Valley Festival. I heard of a small town either in Texas or Oklahoma who started having music concerts once a month. Nowadays, the whole town is full of bed and breakfast and weekend rentals. I'm going to try and find it.
I guess my question is who would come to AC? People from the Casino?
>>
The casinos would be a possibility.
There are businesses that could spring up to play off the casinos. Golf courses?
Hunting and fishing trips.
We have to create affiliated businesses, and other things that give people a reason to come here.
Music festivals.
concerts and the like
Indeed how? and Who?
People just need to start some businesses.
Dont know who will
Ive started the music business. There will be more of that :)
Maybe everyone should think about what business they could start.
Like a canoe trip business. You dont have to start big.
Just have two canoes and take 3-4 people at first...
Sometimes people are silly.
You make your own assumptions and then argue them until the cows come home. My earlier posts included nothing about nothing about race or racism. It said nothing derogatory about hockey moms. I spoke neither of liberal or conservative or Republican or Democrat.
I pointed to the fact that there is a candidate from a completely different venue in comparison to all the other candidates and also that our voters seemed to be infatuated with that brand for
21st century leadership.
The responses were from folks squatting on and baiting an argument on race or partisan politics. When you get done entertaining yourselves, I simply proffer again:
Is our passion for the Hockey mom leadership still alive. If so, we have a candidate in the field who likely fits that profile.
As my four year old granddaughter often says, sometimes people are just silly. She's right. But silly is not a crime, thank God.
Yes, we ahve two rivers, but who has a chance to use them? I have never seen any one canoeing, floating, or swimming there. i have seen very few people fish. when i moved here I asked about using the river. I was told by numerous people that not one used it. i was also told that the rivers were part of the property and I could get shot for tresspassing on someones property if I tried to get on the river.
I've canoed both rivers. Did I spell that right? It's been some time ago and I did run into some unfriendlies. I was never shot at, though.
Actually, it was great fun! Just do not let anyone convince you it takes 4-5 hours to canoe from Winfield to AC on the Walnut. Try 12 or more!
I canoed the Arkansas several years ago. I have also accessed the beaches at the Arkansas on foot via the Nature Center.
your welcome to use the rivers for what ever you want, the city has effectively ended all river activity unless it is walk in activities, or in fact if your an air boater you can have a private key to the air boat ramp.
there is no longer any drive up access on the arkansas river, and just one muddly hole on the walnut.
we need new leadership who will allow us to use the rivers form the city banks
THIS IS A VERY STUPID IDEA. Skateboards think they own the city/sidewalks etc in town. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. OK...I shouldn't lump them all into one group but there will be some just like with anything else. I'm sure the downtown merchants wouldn't like it either. I know I wouldn't even try to go downtown. You couldn't park...if you did your car would likely get dented up.
February 10, 2009 6:38 PM
First, I see more skaters using the sidewalks than anyone else. You can't say that is because of the skaters. How often do you walk instead of drive? Skaters are being environmentally responsible. Not much of a carbon foot print comes by skateboarding.
Second, the point of the skate park is to give the skaters a place to skate so they won’t be on the sidewalks. Also a skate park will get the skaters away from the downtown businesses. So I don't see how they could be against it.
Third, how often do you shop downtown now? Skaters spend money at Graves, Gambino’s, Spokes-N-Thins, and Bryant’s every day. It may not be much but at least they utilize the downtown that most of Ark City has passed off as dead. They are bringing it life everyday
Ok I am here tonight to first get the word out. Monday evening at 6:00 we will be having a meeting at the rec center to discuss the direction of the skate coalition, go over ideas for fund raising, and to let others in the community have a chance to get involved. This is for everyone and I would seriously like to see any and all attend. This includes children and adults. JJ if you could put this in the calender of the Traveler I would greatly appreciate it.
Second we have had another fund raiser idea come up and it is one that was started in the past but never bore fruit. We are looking to have a garage sale in which people can drop off their unwanted belongings once again at Bryants. I need to look into getting permits in order to do it on a Saturday in the parking lot behind my store. I have however been very busy running a business, writing bylaws for this group and researching the costs of building a skate park so if anyone could let me know where to start on this project I would owe you big time. This one actually began with people calling my store wanting to donate things so it is a good sign of the community pulling together to help one another.
As Spring approaches we hope to do a bit of vandalism repair and (from a suggestion here) some planting of flowers and such in lots the city doesn't. We are trying to prove once again that we do take pride in our community. Realize though that at this current time we are a group of a few adults and a dozen kids. If you see kids acting inappropriatelly whip out the ole cell phone, snap a picture, and turn it into the coalition so that we can 1) See if it is one of ours and 2) If it is not reach out to them and try to get them on the right track. Our goal is to make the kids proud to be from Ark City thus far less likely to abuse it.
Grades among the children in our group have improved a bit, we are constantly getting praise that they seem more respectfull and I am an owner of an uptown business and it has been weeks since a skateboard has passed the front of my store. I do however still see bikes and now the new craze of the two wheeled boogey boards which I'm trying to figure out how to appeal to these kids too. All will be welcome at the new skate park.
February 10, 2009 6:38 PM
By your standard you should never leave the house. There are good and bad people everywhere and in every profession in every sex, shape and color. So if you want to judge all skaters by the action of one I ask you to do the same with baseball players, police, doctors, politicians, priests and so on. The thing I never have understood is a skateboard is a farely slow form of transportation. You are more likely to get run over and injured by a cross country runner than a skate board.
Charles,
The term hockey mom is derogatory. It comes from the past and implies white mother due to the fact that in older times almost all hockey players were white. I honestly see no big deal but don't act as though you didn't know what you were saying. I think the far more common phrase would be soccer mom but you chose another route. Why is that I ask myself? You were looking to stir trouble is the answer. The woman you are reffering to has a son yet he doesn't play hockey. How do I know you ask? Because I am one of the few that does play hockey in this town so it's a bit of a birds of a feather thing. My problem with your term is you are labeling someone. Wasn't it you who posted so angry after a fried chicken joke a few blogs ago? Didn't you just make every word you wrote irrelevant by doing exactly what you were angry about? Please in the future try to practice a bit more what you preach and I will be praying for you sir. I do not mean this as an attack just hopefully an eye opener.
Jill,
I see the skaters skate the most and it isn't done on the side walks. I know you are trying to help and we all appreciate it but saying they are when you are in LA doesn't help the kids any. Thank you for the other arguements and the support. We hope that one day you will be able to take a more active role when you live in Ark City.
For clarity, I have never posted anything in anger on here. I resolutely believe you can share and air opinions without temper. It is advanced society.
Hockey mom, soccer mom. We would call that mincing words.
I still say its being silly. The reference is a comparison to the McCain/Palin ticket and whatever racial or otherwise inferences you drew from that have no relevance to me.
I cannot dispute what anyone "says" my motives or intent is. I can only know for myself what mine were. To argue that would be, well... Silly.
So, continue on. A third time I simply point to the candidate and say, check her out if you liked the perona that emerged last fall.
Can you set aside your acrymony long enough to think about the election. Please?
If we put some thought into it, perhaps there will less time spent ranting about the decisions made by our governing body in the next couple of years.
I love my granddaughter. She would just say, "don't be silly, PaPa"
some planting of flowers and such in lots the city
>
Great going Zach
>>
Just a note here. There are 40-some flower beds in the city.
There used to be a volunteer program where people adopted the beds to take care of them.
You could check at city hall as to locations. That might be better than planting things here and there.
And just one word of caution. Tell the kids to NOT help my wife at the library gardens. She can be just a little testy when people try to help her by adjusting anything she has done... :)
The garage sale is a cool idea.
The permit is easy. If you own the lot, you may not need one.
But even if the city does, its just a couple bucks and a quick form.
:)
Ill call you tomorrow about the meeting. Whats a good time?
Sir I don't say anything out of anger right now. I want to tell a little story though. Not long ago 3 or 4 years I heard the m word for a black man in a movie. I didn't register what it meant and began using it as a mob sounding phrase. I offended many people with it before I found out that it is very racist. I still to this day feel bad about using the term but my ignorance bred hatred. My point is ,and I believe you had the same point recently, ignorance breeds hate. I was just trying to ask that we not label a woman and do exactly as you say look at the kind of person she is. This goes not only in local politics but in national too. Like Sarah Pailin or not you are still using a derogatory term against her. Please refrain from the labels is what I ask. Maybe what some find to be silly others see as love and understanding.
JJ I'm there most all day except from 1-2 for lunch and I leave briefly at 3 to pick my son up from school. Thanks for the heads up on the maps that will really help and don't worry we will try not to step on your wife or anyone elses toes.
I may not be in town but I do support and own a parking lot downtown that the skaters can use for the garage sale.
Zach
at the meeting the other night, the commissioners told the kids that they could ask people who own lots for permission.
People who own lots can let people skateboard - or about anything else thats basically legal - on their property.
Just like the kids hear from everyone else. I don't have the insurance to give permission. I'm also not there to run them off.
BOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOO I AM SO SICK OF SKATEBOARDS
naysay naysay naysay
let me fish in the river lord and i will bring my bounty to the poor
Maybe the skaters could have a fish fry?
Palin used the term 'hockey mom' to describe herself...very proudly. Her supporters used it as well.
Speaking to skaters parents bringing revenue to a town - I am under the impression their parents don't go with them, rather a third party loads them into his vehicle and carts them around because their parent (singular, I'm sure in most cases) is too busy, can't afford it (except the multitudes of skaters from the North side), or just doesn't care.
No need to respond Zach, I know your answer will be "Bravo, Sir...I'll pray for you." Drop the skater thing...if they are appeased, next it will be someone else. I like this idea http://www.portigal.com/blog/anti-skateboard-devices-on-the-embarcadero/
I think skaters come from the east and west sides too!!!
their parent (singular, I'm sure in most cases) is too busy, can't afford it (except the multitudes of skaters from the North side), or just doesn't care.
>>>
Same could be said for football, basketball, baseball, softball, dancing, cheerleading, etc.
So Mr boobird, you gonna actually do anything, or just keep sitting back throwing stones.
All of us who have any sense at all do pray for you.
Zack, you will need lots of tables. Also, you may want to get some of those stickers which are pre-priced. Don't forget to have change on hand and watch out for those few who like to run off with change boxes at garage sales. You can't turn your back on them. Trust me!
Charles,
You said, and I quote "Now it seems we have a hockey mom running for City Council. WERe we in love with hockey moms or just afraid of the paradigm shift."
The part which struck me as calling us racist was not the hockey mom part, but the part where you insinuated that it wasn't that we loved hockey mom's but that we were afraid of the "paradigm shift", as you called it.
The way I read that was you saying that maybe it wasn't McCain and Palin we were voting for, but Obama we were voting against because he was different. In this case I took you to mean because he is a black man, since you always seem to interject race into every conversation. If that is not the case, and you simply meant that he was different because of he is a liberal who will hurt our country, then I apologize for thinking the worst.
since you always seem to interject race into every conversation
In this case it seems other people are reading race into his comments.
When I first read the "paradime shift" comment, I thought he was talking about our city commission.
Zach said: "I see the skaters skate the most and it isn't done on the side walks."
Are you seriously trying to say that the skateboarders don't skate on the sidewalks, because I see them on the sidewalks all the time. To speak so absolutely about something you could not possibly know (unless you have surveillance of the sidewalks 24/7) is not wise.
Like I said I have several kids right now that don't skate the sidewalks they have been told not to. It's a kind of on your honor thing do to the fact I can't moniter the walks 24/7 as you say but I know they aren't there on Sunday do to the fact that I am the parent loading them up and taking them out of town. I also can't speak for every kid in town I just know what my kids do and trust them completelly. I am also in my store some days 11 hours and on others 14-16. I am in the middle of the no skate zone and don't see kids skating the sidewalk. So I might not be entirely speaking out of turn.
I think some people who think the kids should give up and go away are honestly just jealous. Here are these punk kids that don't come from anything or have anything (as many of you imply) who have gone much farther with a solution and idea than any of the naysaying adults have who bash them. Luckily the same people who think so ill of the children are also the same people that never get out from behind their computer screens and attend a city meeting or actually get involved in the community. Basically they are anonymous ghosts that have nothing better to do then run chidren down. Hmm another term that comes to mind is bullies.
One peson tells me what I think and I meant. Another says what they thought.
good discussion is when we share our thoughts and opinions with others and invite respectful discussion and retort.
Argument is fueled from people insisting that they know better what another's intent might have been.
As I said once two a couple I was counseling, I smiply have never heard anyone argue the point that "Maybe I am wrong." The point being that we spend so~~~o much time demanding that "I am right and you are wrong". On the other hand, what if a person (EVERY PERSON) took a moment to ponder, "What if I am jumping to the wrong conclusion?"
So, I shant defend myself against what someone says I think or I say or I do. I shall only live with myself. I am the only person I can never get away from.
But I like the person God made me to be. So, I shall live with myself and move on. And I did think candidate Palin proudly presented herself as a Soccer (Hockey?) mom and I also think many in the nation embrqaced that persona. never heard anyone call her racist for saying it.
In fact her classic line replayed countless times was "What's the difference between a Soccer (hockey) mom and a pit bull?...)
Happy Arguing to ya!
The problem with isms is that they are founded on folks drawing a conclusion on an entire population based on either your own imagination or on limited observation.
There is no behavior that can accurately be assigned to "EVERY" person of any ethnic background or group.
And, YES there are ethnic minorities of African descent who might use racilly derogatory labels towards majority populations.
Howver, there are those who detest insulting or offensive language otwards any group.
That notion might be worth considering before one starts spouting off about what some population of people say about another.
Some of us strive to use only the Christian language of love and understanding. Treat others the way you would like to be treated.
Ask a person what they would like to be called and then honor that if at all possible. Those are concepts by which some people live.
January 23, 2009 4:29 PM
I think you make my arguement for me right here charles.
What a load. Or Zach is oblivious. I was in your store as a skater rolled by twice. This skater then enetered your store with her board and was cheerfully greeted by you. What's more is this skater is the daughter of a lady (whom I'll keep nameless) who you have said works closely with you on your little project. Is this the honor of which you speak?
Did she skate by or did she jump her board in my well? Why would she skate by then come back? Your arguement makes no sense. She skates my basement and back parking lot is this where you refer too?
People, don't you know that whites can't play the race card?
Im getting a little leery of this race talk.
It is way off topic and is serving no good purpose that I can see.
Im going to delete any more posts on this thread about race.
Usain Bolt won the 100 meter race at the Olympics.
One rat said to the other, "Life sure is a human race."
LOL
Good one guys.
Z- On the sidewalk. First from South to North, then North to South. I can't help that you do not understand.
I used to watch The Iron Sheik wrestle Handsome Harley Race on Saturday morning.
Zach said: "She skates my basement and back parking lot is this where you refer too?"
Do you own the back parking lot, or is that city property???
Seems like City property to me. I used to park back there when the theater was worth going to, which was long before it closed.
I believe the last city commission meeting they said they see no problem with them skating in the back parking lot after 5 when most the other businesses close as long as the ones that are still open don't have a problem with it. Attend meetings and you would know these facts. Plus we need to define skateboarding I guess. I had a kid drop his board just now about 3 feet out on the walk from my store then roll to my door. Is this the attrocities of which you speak? Ask local merchants what they have seen and how they feel about the kids in the last month and see how reactions have changed. Don't even the nay sayers think a solution to the problem is far more productive than just whining about the problem itself?
Oh yeah and in answer to the question I do not own the lot yet my grandfather donated it so the city has always been pretty lax with me back there.
Other than obey the law??? No. I am not allowed to speed, so I don't. I'm not allowed to run red lights, so I don't. And I don't feel the police are after me because of these laws.
Once again what is your point exactly? The commission said they didn't see a problem with them parking in the lot after business hours so I guess they aren't breaking the law. What would you say if I said the police are actually breaking the law with their skater arrests? Check the law books on that one.
Skaters are being arrested????? If they break the law, they should be. If not, ACLU will take this case in a heartbeat. If it is as you say, civil rights are being violated. Go to their website, show them those 'books' and things will quickly change. Bravo, sir....I'll pray for you.
They are taking boards meaning that they are confiscating property for traffic violations. Do they take your car when you are speeding? Do they arrest you for running a stop sign? Unless there is a city ordanince allowing them to do so then I guess it would be a rights violation and seeing as how the commission tabled these issues that would imply that they can't yet. It's funny how worked up people get over the rights violations of a $600 crash tax but now no one seems to care about the violations happening to the children. What if they were your kids or better yet I guess what if they took your car?
I used to watch The Iron Sheik wrestle Handsome Harley Race on Saturday morning.
-------------------
What about "Roller Derby"?
Hmm, Maybe it isn't such a bad idea being compared to Alaska Governor Sarah Palin. Just look at what she has accomplished while Governor and while serving two terms on the Wasilla City Council and two terms as the mayor/manager of Wasilla.
http://gov.state.ak.us/bio.php
So are you saying you are not interested in the only female candidate because I offered my thoughts against racism?
At first I thought you were confused but now I know it is me. What I said (misspelled words inclusive is consistent with what I offered here.
Are the voters going to take her serious (ala Palin) or just bury heads in the sand and vote for the more familiar names with the greater community visibility.
That is the question. Doesn't mean you cannot conitnue your self perpetuated argument. Just consider the candidates for the upcoming election.
I have mentioned the merit of Snell, the mettle of McDonald and now the modesty of Penny.
Any thoughts about the candidates?
Although I wouldlove to hear Warren talk about his interests. He too has an impressive history of doing good in the community. Alas, only three seats. What to do?
Just when we thought we were going to have no options, we have to let one good one go???
I'm glad AC stood up and some leaders came forward.
I hope that whoever loses out will come back when the other two seats open up!!!
Zach, I agree with you on the taking of skateboards, AND the need for a skate park, BUT, the kids who are riding on the sidewalks should be fined for doing so. So should the kids who ride their bikes on the sidewalk. It used to be clearly painted on each corner that doing so was illegal. Is it still?
That being said, the Police Dept. website says that anyone caught riding skateboards or bikes on the sidewalk will be arrested for trespassing. ARRESTED! I find that completely ridiculous. Nowhere in the trespassing statute does it say anything about how you are traversing the property in question. If people are allowed to walk on it, and it is public property, then trespassing doesn't fit. Ridiculous attempt to circumvent the law... typical.
Man Charles, for someone who doesn't like to argue, you sure like to argue. So silly!
Thank you Charles for clarifying what you meant. I was confused. Also thank you for not using the term again. I think as I said before we were both on the same page just of different books.
February 12, 2009 8:13 AM
I agree completely with you. In fact at the commission meeting our message was to go ahead and raise the fines, just give a little compromise in return and take a look at the "No skate zone". There are many residential areas where kids aren't allowed to skate and they had hoped to expand that. This is wrong. I often wonder how we all survived back in the days when kids played stick ball in the streets and how many deaths due to bikes and skateboards there have been. It seems to me (and I think a lot of you) that we live in a community that just loves to fine people as much as possible.
Zach, while I don't agree with kids riding skatebaords and bikes on the sidewalk, because there have been injuries to pedestrians in the past, especially the elderly who aren't able to get out of the way quickly, I think you should contact the Kansas Attorney General's office about the way the Police Dept. is conducting itself. They will be able to tell you if what the PD is doing is legal or not, and if not, I suggest bringing a lawsuit on behalf of all the skaters you represent. In my eyes, if the city does not have an ordinance stating that skateboards will be confiscated, then that is theft, or at least temporary deprivation of property. Check it out and see if you really want to get things done.
Has anyone been hurt by a skateboader downtown? EVER?
Sueing the city is actually the last thing we want to do. If you haven't been able to tell we are trying to improve the community and make it something the kids can be proud to be a part of. Thank you for the support but fighting the sysem rarely works. Compromising with it to better form it to your cause is a much better way to get results.
Yes, people have been hurt by skateboarders. People walking out of businesses directly into the path of a skateboarder at high speed. That is why the laws were put in place.
Letting "the system" get away with illegal activity is not compromise. You may have to grow a pair and fight for what you care about. Otherwise things will never change. Thinking like yours would still have black people drinking at different water fountains. If something isn't right, you must fight to change it, not hope it goes away on it's own.
Were the injuries documented?
Why don't you call the Police Department and ask them?
The police said today that kids arrested on the sidewalk are first warned to get off the sidewalk then arrested for ignoring the direct order from a police officer. Tresspassing is not the charge. Mel Kuhn called in to find this out for me. If your child is charged with tresspassing on the sidewalks then go to court and the charge should be dismissed. The main issue I was told is grinding. That is when the boards can be taken away as evidence for the damages charges. Tresspassing should only be filed if they are found on private property. Thank you Mel and thank you ACPD for giving me a better idea of the laws surrounding this issue. I urge anyone who has been charged different than these rules to go to court and get it dismissed. As for my pair they are just fine as I am still one of the few adults working (not fighting) to get these kids a place to skate.
Anonymous said...
Man Charles, for someone who doesn't like to argue, you sure like to argue. So silly!
Whoever said this, you should have put your name on it. You are so absolutely correct.
But since I never learned how to swim, I am opting out since it is getting too profoundly deep for me.
Next topic?
This was taken directly from the Police Dept. website. Straight from the horse's mouth.
http://www.crimepreventionconnection.com/news/6bm3fsf4n55h/Arkansas+City+Police+Department
Skateboarding/Biking on Private and City Property: Illegal and Dangerous
The police department has been overwhelmed with complaints about the skateboarding/Bicycling issue from both sides of the argument. The city and private business owners complain that the skateboarders are damaging property, and that is true. They also complain that skateboarders have almost knocked people down on sidewalks and have been very disruptive and rude to business owners who have asked them to move on. That too has been confirmed as occurring.
The Skateboarders/Bicyclists argue that it is their right to use skateboards and bicycles as a mode of transportation and a form of entertainment, and that is true as well. In addition, they argue that there is nowhere in town except city and private businesses to skateboard or bike. That is not necessarily true, as there are sidewalks, etc. out of the area where skateboarding and biking is illegal.
The police department understands both sides of the argument, but our mission and responsibility is to protect life and property. There have been citizens knocked over and bones broken from getting hit by bicyclists on the downtown sidewalks in the past. There has also been property damage done by skateboards. Because warnings and dialogue with skateboarders/bicyclists has not succeeded in compliance with the law, the police department has implemented a crack down on this activity to protect life and property. If an Arkansas City Police Officer encounters a skateboarder/Bicyclist on city or private property, they will be ARRESTED FOR TRESPASSING.
If there are any questions concerning this approach, please call the Chief of Police at 620-441-4447.
_________________________________
You didn't think I made that up did ya?
somebody is lying I guess. Either Wallace lied on the website, or he lied to Kuhn today. You pick.
I was sitting with Kuhn when he called. It wasn't Wallace he talked to but the official police stance is it is not trespassing they are arrested for
I'm sure that the skaters would be happy to skate other parts of town if the code enforcement kept up with the sidewalk maintenance
"I was sitting with Kuhn when he called. It wasn't Wallace he talked to but the official police stance is it is not trespassing they are arrested for"
The OFFICIAL Police stance is what is in writing, not word of mouth, and the website is in writing. How sure are you that no one has been arrested for trespassing yet, or that no one will be in the future? Just because they may say something to the mayor when he calls does not always mean that's the way it will always go down on the streets.
Oh I totally agree. I'm sorry if I came off otherwise. I think every time a skater gets arrested otherwise they need to go to court and get the charges dropped. Let's get this straight I didn't agree with a lot of things I was told by the mayor today. Apparently our water is as cheap as most in the state when other studies say otherwise. Apparently only 1% of all water accounts in Ark City are delinquent when I found a study showing closer to 50%. We shouldn't teach our children to question authority I was told. And honestly the list goes on. And I wasn't the only one who disagreed. Apparently it is fine to confinscate a skateboard even if there is no city ordinance saying it is ok even though federal law says an ordinance must be in place first. I'm glad I was taught to question authority because otherwise I would have blindly followed. I have contacted three different kids who were charged with trespassing and informed them that if their parents paid the fines then they should file a grievence with the police department. You are right though the answer it took the department 15 minutes to pull from a law book did not match the answer they have written that was posted here earlier leading me to wonder why they don't know what their own stance is?
"Because that's the way it's always been done."
The answer to every question asked of the Police Dept.
If someone you know was arrested for skateboarding, they need to do more than file a grievance. And if someone you know had their skateboard confisated (stolen), then they need to do the same. Only by challenging authority figures when they are in the wrong (cough*mayor*cough) will we ever get them to do things right.
If people are being wrongly arrested, then that is a crime, and the PD should be held accountable.
Once again I agree but if the kids are grinding on the curbs then the boards can be confinscated as part of the investigation, and if they are on private property (i.e. the HNB parking lot) they can be arrested for trespassing. I don't want to see either happen and today I did challenge the mayor for well over an hour.
On another note I saw the girl boarder refered to earlier in this blog yell at a bike rider on the sidewalk today and she got the finger in response. A couple kids that skate with us from time to time were seen at the library where she went to ask them to set a better example. They did for a while then skated in the street on Summit. I told them to stop or I would be forced to call the police after she chewed their ears in a way that would make my mother proud. We are trying I guess is my point. I think if you ask most uptown merchants (which I have asked a lot) they will tell you that there has been a vast improvement. We are currently doing the can drive so be sure to send your cans uptown and we are also looking to do a coffee can by the cash register drive. If you own a business and don't mind a can please let us know. We are also taking donations for the garrage sale still. Call us at 442-0030 and we will even pick them up if need be. Our goal is to get as little money from the city as possible on this project seeing as the economy is bad. Also there is a meetin this coming Monday at 6 p.m. at the rec center and we hope to see many of you there.
What about the land directly West of the Ag building? That would be a good spot for a skate park. Or put one where the old one was.
The city has plans to put a new building where the old one was, otherwise we would push for there. Some cool ideas I have heard is Curry Field but the high school is going to play on it still next season which would mean we would have to wait a year to start construction. There is also the land owned by the rail road down where the old brewery burnt down. I think a key part of this is to keep it centrally located so all kids have access to it and it allows the community to moniter it a bit more. The last skate park had a time where it was over run by bullies and drug dealers. This is not what we want to happen again.
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