Way back in the dark ages when I was in school, we had bullies too. We had fights. They were not usually in the school. They were usually in alleys or vacant lots after school.
Most often there was just talk. People would say "yea ill meet you there and beat the s**t out of you," but usually no one ever showed up.
There was not the gang fear going around, and there was only a little bit of drugs. But we did have a motorcycle gang that actually rode their bikes to high school. They thought they were really mean and tough, but basically everyone ignored them and there weren't any problems.
(I was in high school in the late 70's. It was east tennessee, so it was really like the 60's. )
The thing I remember though, was you had to develop survival skills.
Most of us walked to school. Even in the second grade, bigger kids would hang out and stop you before you got to school and "ask" for your money. So you had 15 cents for a snack, they wanted it. Or they would take your lunch money. And of course threaten to beat you up if you told.
(Telling on someone was the ultimate sin and you would never be forgiven by your fellow students. So it was something you just did not do. Even teachers badmouthed tattle tales.)
I would just say i didnt have any money and keep walking. One day one grabbed me and tried to search me. I escaped. The next day i brought a knife and held it in my hand as i walked to school.
They laughed at me over that, but they never tried to shake me down for change anymore.
I learned there that making people laugh could also get you out of jams too.
I started bringing toy guns and shooting at them, and they did too. It was pretend violence i guess. We had some great snowball fights. Sometimes people got hurt doing that, but ... it was not considered a major incident.
I was never one of them, but they decided i was a crazy kid and therefore cool. So I didn't get messed with much.
You can't always avoid a fight though. I had two in school. Both cases it was people picking on me to the point that I felt I had no other option.
One was actually in a classroom. This bigger guy kept messing with me. Sat behind me and pulling my hair etc., i had long hair back then. one day I just turned around and started throwing punches. He of course fought back. We both had bloody noses and black eyes.
I got a paddling and suspended 3 days for fighting. When I got home I got a real hard whipping and lost all privileges for a couple weeks, AND my mom made me apologize to the teacher.
My parents didn't even want to hear about why I was fighting. They had raised me better than that and it was my fault for doing it and I had let them down. They expected better of ME, and didn't for a second blame the school or even the other kid.
I took my punishment proudly. It was worth it.
Another time was in an alley after school. No one else knew about it, and we both made up stories as to why we had scrapes and bruises.
In both cases I became sort of friends with the person I fought with.
Often you win a bully's respect by fighting back.
It doesn't matter if you lose either. Id say the alley fight, id have to admit I lost, but the fact that i was willing to fight made an impression.
I wasn't some tough kid. I was smaller than most and not all that athletic or strong. I just had a reputation of not taking much crap off people, so it wasn't worth the hassle for them to mess with me. I would fight, even if i lost.
Just a different time I guess. We were just not as sensitive.
If my fight in the classroom happened today, would the police be called ?
Would it make the papers?
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Posts
25 comments:
Fighting is stupid,and only idots do it
Fighting is stupid,and only idots do it
Somehow I think the Jews in 1930s Germany would disagree...
It is stupid, but at the same time, it is also necessary at times.
That wasnt my point though ;)
My nephew (I'll call him "Tommy") was only ten when his father died in prison. I looked after Tommy because he was my brother's son. My brother's final words to Tommy were about fighting:
Promise me son, not to do the things I done. Walk away from trouble if you can. It won't mean you're weak if you turn the other cheek. I hope you're old enough to understand, son you don't have to fight to be a man.
But eventually Tommy found out he did have to fight sometimes, and he was a better man for it. He whooped those gattlin boys somethin' fierce after they took turns on his woman. Me, I'da killed em all slow and left em in a pool of their own blood and tears, but he just beat em up.
Pansy!
JJ, we've all been there. There will always be bullies and fights will always happen. What separates today from yesteryears is the fact that we turn on our tv's to incidents like Columbine. I do not remember anything like that happening when I was a kid. Do you? Kids who get picked on and bullied today either react differently, or are not emotionally stable enough (maybe a bad home life?) to live with it. They are resorting to some horrific options. I think we all fear that this could happen in our schools. Also, the gangs are more violent in the big cities. We are also afraid of this migrating here.
"Promise me son, not to do the things I done. Walk away from trouble if you can."
Sounds familiar. I might know the man. Was he a gambler?
Most of the problem today is that the police (officers at school) are involved and there is a division of responsibility for discipline. The schools slough off their responsibilities onto cops who are powerless in non-criminal issues.
In the past, if you did something wrong, the principal and your teachers would figure out some punishment for you, consisting of a spanking, detention or additional assignments.
Today, there is no spanking, which is a good thing, but the punishment is that a policeman "arrests" the kid.
First, the cop is completely overwhelmed by the number of kids at the schools. His primary responsibility is crime prevention, not babysitting.
His hands are tied, because there is no "crime". The only punishment he can give is "jail" time. The kids know that that will never EVER happen for a fistfight.
The school admins will give the kids expulsion (!!!) as punishment for acting up. Don't look now, but that is exactly what the kids want: expulsion. If they had decent parents, expulsion would be a punishment, but instead, the kids will be let off of school to run wild in the streets.
The first step is to forget about the cops. Keep them handy for big crimes, but get them out of the petty discipline loop. They have no teeth, the kids know it and it doesn't work.
Second, make a policy that eliminates expulsion as a punishment option. Set up detention and supervised community service as mandatory punishment.
This will meet firm resistance, because the administrators with their Ph.D's can't figure out how to monitor the parking lot, let alone, how to manage delinquent students.
But isn't that what the problem is?
Threaten to roll heads until it is done. It will take 1 week. Problem solved. 1 or 2 people fired, but the schools become safe.
Well worth it.
Sorry if you lost your job, but we had to make room for someone who would keep the schools safe.
"administrators with their Ph.D's"
And Ed.D's
When I was in school (before the ice age), the principal's paddle was greatly feared. As well as my parent's paddle when I got home. That's the problem (I think). In those days the kids were afraid of the faculty & parents. These days the teachers and parents are afraid of the kids.
Fights are not good. But, they are and will be a part of growing up. A bully won't pick on one he knows will fight back.
Another problem is delinquent parents. Parents who have no business having children. Can't teach kids anything. Can't even take care of themselves. (I would almost be in favor of forced sterilization) Pipe down, I said...ALMOST. A boy needs his Dad.
I am a firm believer that when we outlawed the paddle, we started losing control. It has been going down hill ever since.
And someone asked about incidents like Columbine happening when we were kids...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman
I am a firm believer that when we outlawed the paddle, we started losing control. It has been going down hill ever since.
>>
You may be right.
Back when I was in school, if you got in trouble at school, you would be in bigger trouble when you got home.
Parents tended to believe teachers or administrators.
Now I think teachers have to defend their disciplinary measures against parents.
My son comes from a good home, we as parents are involved, he does his home work, gets decent grades, participates in extra curricular activities. We have taught him not to fight, and to walk away whenever possible. Problem is, there is a group of students who will not let you mind your own business; they will hound, push and provoke you until you react. Push you into lockers, trip you in the hall, knock your books out of your hands, take cheap shots in the locker room, call you fag, say all sorts of things about your mother...
And then, if you fight back you are arrested,pay the court costs, fines and fees, go to anger management classes, get suspended...
No, these certainly aren't the good old days you so fondly remember...
Since we are discussing fond memories, I want to share one of mine. I remember a time when city Christmas lights worked, and were replaced when they burned out. The state of our downtown lights and displays is sadly laughable. It kind of mirrors the town, a town I like, but at the same time I have to shake my head in embarassment.
@1:08 AM
I did pass a City bucket truck downtown the other day working on them. Other than that, I haven't really noticed them at night.
Check out the colored light displays (wise men, santa, etc.) nearly 1/3 of the lights on them are not working. The city workers could do it. Of course it would take 4 or 5 of them to change 1 bulb, but that's another rant...
Maybe they are trying to save money on electric by not replacing the bulbs. (bright idea!) Or maybe when they pass the animal ordinance then they can afford to buy new ones. Yes, I am being sarcastic.
This board echoes many frustrations from the state of the schools to the state of the city and in some ways continues on up the ladder. We get what we allow, we get what we accept.
If we truly want change at schools we have to speak at school meetings and remind them that we have higher standards than they are allowing. This is also true for the city Christmas displays.
We need to speak, we need to ask questions and not just post on boards and accept things. If you want change you have to be involved. If a few volunteers got together those lights on the displays could be changed at no cost to the city. Have the city just buy the bulbs and go for it.
The schools issues are serious because they involve every element of our society. There are issues from home environment to government standards to again what we will accept as a community. It is up to us to make our schools what we want and not all of it can be dumped on the school doorstep. The most disturbing thing to me is that those that are elected to lead have thrown in the towel. I hope they will continue to fight for change and help positive change truly make all our schools not just pretty buildings but institutions of true learning.
I noticed that your poll is currently running at 64% saying there is a serious problem at the High School. Are all these people delusional?
"Push you into lockers, trip you in the hall, knock your books out of your hands, take cheap shots in the locker room, call you fag, say all sorts of things about your mother..."
And that was just the teachers.
Anyone remember the shop teacher in the old High School?
I can remember Lester Griffit in High school auto mechanics and Lord could that man give swats. He had a 2x4 narrowed down for a handle and holes drilled into the receiving end that doled out the punishment.
@3:12 PM
those were the days. I grew up in another state of U.S.A. We also had our own "Lester Griffit". Students knew if they got out of line.....
Nowadays..well...the students are in charge.
The high school principal has resigned and I am sure some people in the community are happy. They are the ones who believe one person is responsible for the problem and getting rid of that one person will solve the problem. The problem goes deeper than one person. The problem is community deep. The problems that start in the home carry over to the school. Sure the school board could clean house and start over, but that is not going to solve the problem when so many parents are in denial. It is easy to blame the schools, the teachers and administrators. I agree that the school needs to revamp their discipline policy and hold studetns accountable. The problem is that too many parents complain when their child gets disciplined.
I am a teacher. I am continually surprised by the escalating numbers of students who come to class unprepared- no books, no pencils, no paper. They feel it is the teacher's job to supply their every need. If you assign homework, a large percentage will not do it. It is not that they can't do it; they just don't want to do it.
Ever wonder why so many teachers have left the profession? They get burned out because they are not respected by students, parents, or community members.
My dad expected us to show respect to everyone, even if we felt they did not deserve it. If we had ever talked back to a teacher, cussed in the classroom, or refused to do an assignment, we would be in trouble at home. He valued education because he was not able to go to school past the eighth grade. He taught us to value the oppurtunity we had to get an education.
An earlier post said we should do away with expulsion. I agree. When studetns act up, they don't mind going to HISS or ISS or being expelled. It is an excuse not to do the work assigned. Many will act up in HISS or ISS so that they are sent to the office and that means they often get sent home. If you don't attend the ASP program when you are expelled, you will eventually be assigned ISS again.
We need a true alternative school. One on a seperate campus. One that requires students to wear uniforms. One that requires some manual labor along with the classwork.Maybe it should even be run like a boot camp. If we truly want to take back our schools and get them out of the hands of the students, then the consequneces of bad behavior have to be consequences. Until parents are willing to help enforce the discipline, the schools' hands are tied.
I hope that the school board looks outside the district for a replacement principal. We need someone brought in that the majority of the community is willing to get behind and support. Maybe if the community had supported the current administrators in the beginning, things would not have gotten so bad. Bring in someone that has no ties to the community and who can be impartial. Yeah, I know that is a dream, but that is what it would take to really make a difference.
@8:26AM
"...If we truly want to take back our schools and get them out of the hands of the students, then the consequneces of bad behavior have to be consequences. Until parents are willing to help enforce the discipline, the schools' hands are tied..."
Thanks for sharing. I'm old enuf to hear what you are saying.
I agree with the last 2 posts. I do feel i need to add that we also need to have teachers set examples. My daughter has had a few teachers that have cussed and other students have told me the same. Oh, I imagine how tempting it must be with the way some kids act! Parents should be the number one influence, but just in case they aren't, it sure wouldn't hurt to have the teachers setting positive examples.
On another thought, I want to say that I don't understand how the public can just blame the High School Principal for all the troubles. She helped my daughter in every way, shape and form with her class schedule to help keep her in school. I would have to guess that most students like her(both my daughters do), unless they are the troublemakers.
Its going to take a very brave person, amongst other things, to even apply to be principal at ACHS. Once they "google" ACHS Principal and see all of the stuff that has been printed and said in the last month in the papers and blogs, MANY resumes and job applications for ACHS principal will be heading for the trash can and with good reason. Once they see how much the community supports the current administrators and public figures of the town- we have very little chance of attracting good candidates!
Post a Comment