What do you all think about the city getting a drug dog?
Actually, the proposed animal is a "multi-purpose" dog. The animal would be able to sniff out drugs, also to track people down, search buildings and things like that.
At last week's work session, a dog and his handler from Augusta gave a demonstration in the commission chamber. It was pretty interesting. The dog was very impressive.
The handler had planted some drugs in the room, and the dog found them quickly. What if someone had just happened to have been there and had a bit of drugs in their pocket?
That would have been interesting.
While the dog was looking for the drugs, he took an interest in my camera. He really wanted to get a good sniff of it. Well I did get it off E-bay, so you never know.
But most likely the dog was aware of me messing with it and pointing it at him, so he just wanted to see what it was.
Anyway, police believe a good bit of drugs pass through town and they want to catch some of them.
There is also the rumor of the big drug operation that runs out of Arkansas City. This has been rumored for decades. Every small town I have lived in has had some variation of that rumor.
Small towns thrive on rumors. It is not unique to Arkansas City at all.
Not sure why, but larger cities don't have that as much.
Anyways, I dont want to get into accusing or spreading rumors. I dont want any people named on here, but ... what do you all think about the rumor of a major drug operation operating out of Arkansas City?
It will be interesting to see if the drug dog can sniff that out.
Police will have to raise the money from private sources for the city to approve it.
But police also get to keep money the confiscate, as well as property that can be sold eventually, so the dog could finance himself.
One good bust would be all it would take.
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41 comments:
Big drug operation here? Nah get out of town! :) Yeah, I do think something is going on, I just don't know if it is the same ones that I have been hearing about for years. But I firmly believe there is some drug operations going on.
"Not sure why, but larger cities don't have that as much."
jj, that's a no-brainer. In large settings, people have more things to do than dig in other people's business.
Sure there are drugs here. Drugs are everywhere. Too bad. Because the children suffer the worst, either by using drugs or having parents that do.
Because the children suffer the worst, either by using drugs or having parents that do.
Then why would we voluntarily bring a poor innocent animal into this?
I wonder if the dug gets high after sniffing drugs? He must, right? How can you sniff a big baggie of coke without getting some of the effects? When does the amoutn of drugs sniffed out in a single day cause the dog to stop sniffing for drugs, and start sniffing out bags of Doritos?
Enquiring minds want to know!
The police department has the highest or one of the highest budgets. Do they expect to pay for this dog out of their existing budget or do they expect additional funding?
How much does a dog like this cost?
I see the rationale for drug busting purposes but search/rescue seems nonsensical.
If they can pay for it then I don't see the problem. If they expect taxpayers to pay for it then I would want to see an annual confiscated properties/monies revenue report. This should be public knowledge if it isn't already.
I think the dog may be able to help in the case of missing persons. Didn't we pay other countys to bring their dogs in for the Jodie case?
The police already use drug dogs but we have to call other countys to borrow them so the next logical step would be to have one of their own. Aren't most people on here pushing for bigger city mentality? Bigger cities have dogs.
If they can pay for it then I don't see the problem. If they expect taxpayers to pay for it then I would want to see an annual confiscated properties/monies revenue report. This should be public knowledge if it isn't already.
>>>
It was in my story last week :)
costs $42,000 to get started .. outfit the car, buy the dog, etc.,
then about $10,000 per year for upkeep and to pay the handler . ..
wallace says he can get private funding
commission says its ok if he can get private funding
that means no tax money
@ dead rabbit
But how many missing person cases happen each year? I doubt it's very high or at least not enough to warrant the purchase of a dog.
It would be interesting to the statistics on how many drug related crimes/persecutions happen in AC on an annual basis.
It would be interesting to the statistics on how many drug related crimes/persecutions happen in AC on an annual basis.
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It is going up some
Chief says there would be a lot more if he had the dog.
im not an advocate one way or the other. .
thats just what the police say..
if he can get the money from another source than taxes, then ... i guess its ok ?
@ Traveler Editor
My bad, I didn't read the story but thank you for answering my questions.
Do you happen to know if its public knowledge the revenue the police department keeps due to confiscating monies/properties from criminals?
@ TE
If they get private funding and it will help clean up our community then I am on board!
Do you happen to know if its public knowledge the revenue the police department keeps due to confiscating monies/properties from criminals?
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NOt totally sure. But i think it is.
They are kinda limited as to what they can do with the money, it has to be used for drug law enforcement .. but that can be interpreted a variety of ways.
I am all for getting a dog, but don't be fooled into thinking that it will be used for anything but sniffing for drugs, either around cars that are stopped, or in homes or schools.
Drug dogs are a wonderful tool because the circumvent the need for probable cause or consent searches on vehicles that have been pulled over for other reasons. Don't be surprised if you get stopped for a traffic infraction, and all of a sudden a dog is making a circle around your car sniffing the fenders. This is a perfectly legal, non-intrusive, search as long as you and your vehicle are not held any longer than it would normally take to write a ticket for the reason you were initially stopped. If the dog does hit on something, then that gives the officers probable cause to pull you out and search your vehicle.
@ sg
Excellent points!
there are 47 people listed under the police department payroll
If we have that many cops and cant catch the drug problem how is a dog going to help?
There is so much wasted money in the police department, just look at the cops driveing down the street, i will bet you, you will see four cops talking on cell phones driveing down the street before you see one that isnt talking.
I have been watching this for a week and the only officer i never see talking is the Woman police person.
I also want to see police cars kept in service for five years minimum, this new car every two years is crazy for a small country town like we have
Where is Andy at, I hear Aunte B calling
If Chief Wallace and his top favorites, would stop taking "so many" out of state trips, they would have enough money in one year to buy the drug dog. Check out their out of state travel for 2008.
@ 9:55 and 10:12
Where are you getting this information? I want to see!
did you know that if with the dog they get to byppas yhe search warrent process? I mean if a druggie is going around and throwing his junk in the neigbors trash can and they just happen to take the dog up and down the street and alleys like they do sometimes now and with officers to steal trash and stuff because atrash can most of the time sits on the city easement will yhat stand up in court. And they have picked up peoples trash and gone through it before and charged the resident not knowing who else dumped trash in yhat alley. Just where does the dogs authority stop and start. The kansas high way Patrol has had cases about the dogs at the turnpikes go to court about just that where does that right begin cause you know dogs are always sniffing something or somebody leg. Mot taking up for the druggie dealers but civilrights fought for by ACLU
Drugs found in the trash do not constitute arrest they only get the police evidence for a search warrant. The police don't randomly grab trash cans either they normally have a thing called probable cause before they start looking in the recepticles. They don't even get a warrant if drugs are found in a trash can once, it's normally when they are found multiple times in bags that have your mail in them. That way there is a link so that what is in the trash becomes evidence. Now ask yourself if a druggie would throw away actual drugs? The answer is no, not unless the police are knocking at the door at the time. Normally what is found in the trash is seeds, stems, or paraphanalia of some sort (burnt foil, broken tire guages, chemical bottles for meth (I have that list do to the fact that the state asks that retailers monniter if anyone buys too much of these products). This sets up the investigation process where they begin watching who is at your home. Don't hang out with known criminals and then the investigation dies here. Have drug users and dealers over for dinner and then probably you are going to get a visit from the law. You know guilt by association. I believe we have a great police force that takes slck for doing their jobs. Instead of complaining we should all take a moment to thank them and shake their hands for protecting our children and ourselves.
BYTE DAILY
Information. Only pending appropriations are left on the City Commission web site [documents section]. What you want to see is all the appropriation ordinances for 2008. They are public record available at city hall. Be prepared to take a little time to scan thru them, the average is 46 pages. You will find many other expense payments that will raise your interest.
Got a good idea to the one griping about 4 cops patrolling. Lets just get rid of half and watch how many crimes are committed. Don't you think they drive around for a purpose? I see them on summit and side streets. Thats half the job, think?
You are mistaken about the trash searches. Discarded trash is no longer your property, and as such you have no right to privacy with it. If you are suspected of dealing or possessing drugs, the police can take your trash and go through it to see if they find anything linking you to drugs. They also make sure they can link the contents of the bag to you also, by envelopes or bills, etc. This becomes a piece of probable cause for a search warrant. This is not done randomly though. Cops have better things to do that pick up and dig through random sacks of trash. It's not fun. But it is a good way to get a search warrant if you have reason to believe someone is dealing.
@ Zach. Police do not need probable cause to take your trash. They don't even need reasonable suspicion. They could go around taking trash from random houses all night if they wanted, but like I said it's not fun, and there are better ways.
I agree with what you are saying. Just different ways of saying it.
Several of you are on track and several of you are off! Being a county law enforcement officer, I can tell you, that a K9 unit of any sorts is a great benefit. I've worked with several and they are worth their weight in gold as far as drugs and officer protection. I haven't worked with on yet that was worth a hoot as far as tracking or searching for a lost or missing person though. I've been on 3 cases of missing people and the Cowley County Trackers found the person each and every time even after the dogs had been through the area.
First of all, trash pulls are a nessecity in working up probable cause for a warrant on drug issues. Tips are one of the things that lead up to reasonable suspicion to get to probable cause. These tips usually and most likely come from "you" the public when you complain about activity and want something done. When someone leaves their trash next to the curb, it's considered not part of their curtlage and is presumed to be meant to get rid of, therefore public.
Yes, on a traffic stop, a K9 unit can give you the probable cause you need on a "hit". It's still the officers job to come up with the resonable suspicion and call for the K9. Trust me when I say, that the dog won't be used a lot for just running around each and every traffic stop. Yes, there will be some, when they are specifically targeting drug suspicious traffic, and then in DUI lanes etc. When an officer see's something that doesn't add up, he has reasonable suspicion but not probable cause to pull the occupants and detain them for a search unless it's voluntary which is NEVER. He can detain them though while writing a ticket etc, and let the K9 do a walk around the vehicle. If the hit is there, then the probable cause is there, and the process starts.
A K9 can cut the officer(s) time into mere mins of what it takes the time to do a thorough search of a vehicle and also of a residence in finding illegal drugs. To search a house properly, it takes several officers and a few hours. It can take a dog just minutes.
To search a building where you think there might be a suspect or when you find an open door on a building, a K9 can handle that in minutes safely.
In a standoff baricaded situation a K9 can lots of time be intimidating enough to solve the problem or handle it without SWAT making an entry and risking officers lives.
YES, not only Ark City, but Winfield, and all of Cowley County has a significant drug issue happening and everyone's blind if they think we don't. All the agencies though simply do not have the man power and resources to handle it and dedicate the manpower to it to make a significant difference. The bad guys know this too, and just change tactics constantly to keep up with things.
A K9 unit is just another tool in the officers belt to assist things and speed up the process.
Sumner has 4 dogs, Butler has 1 and there has been times when none of them were available to assist us.
FYI- The county is also starting a K9 program and is also in the process of finding private funds to get things off the ground.
As far as obtaining property or seizing it, that gets complicated also. Property can't have any leins, mortgages etc. or at least has to be worth what is owed on it. Cash has to have dedicated ties to drug trafficing to obtain it.
Hope this helps.
Byte Daily
Hows your blood pressure? Or havn't you looked at the city appropriation ordinances yet?
@ 1:13
I realize this is nerdy but I really would like to see budget documentation broken down per department (further then what is posted online). I just haven't had the time to seek out this information, yet!
Being a county law enforcement officer, I can tell you, that a K9 unit of any sorts is a great benefit.
So under the local ordinances can this dog be considered vicious because he will attack by command or in reaction and if so what os the difference between that sort of dog and a pit bull under a good responsible owner??
And if we have to fit a car just for the dog will we not have to use more cars to transport offenders or do we treat them like the animal and make them share the shame seat?
I also wonder with so many insurance company charging extra for vicious dog and with the state cutting back on money to cities such as our will that ift in the budget ? Don't they take out liabilty insurance on officers?
Mister law officer help me with this
American Pit Bulldog Fan
Basic...
01-209 is Administration
01-203 is City Manager
01-205 IS City Attorney
01-310 is Fire Department
01-421 is Police Department
These are about to change, as the reporting format is being changed.
Sure there are drugs here. Drugs are everywhere. Too bad. Because the children suffer the worst, either by using drugs or having parents that do.
Some would say women and children suffered when wemon were allowed to smoke!!
If they can pay for it then I don't see the problem.
No they cannot but you know and what they want is for the taxpayer to foot the bill, after all they are protecting the citizens right. Or the ones who choice is to do drugs.
What is also left out is the cost of retraining a handler if the chosen one decide to retire or take employment elsewhere!!
Ifv I suspect a drugie living on my block and they throw their stuff in my trash can am I going to vilified because they find it there instead of the druggies house?FYI- The county is also starting a K9 program and is also in the process of finding private funds to get things off the ground.
So if we have one in the county why have one on the city force, I thought they were working togather to fight against drugs (County Drug Task Force) Or do they not know how to share??
We cut jobs of people to spend money on dogs instead of giving people a chance to help feed family. Never seen a DOG give anything to help a starving child
Never seen a DOG give anything to help a starving child...
You got to be kidding me! No, it won't exactly feed a starving child. Ever think it just might keep drugs out of that kids hands,which might keep that kid from becoming a homeless drug addict someday? Maybe it might find that starving lost missing child? Maybe these questions are being a little dramatic, but I see big benifits and the police are not asking us to pay extra taxes, so why is it such a big problem to give it a try?
"So under the local ordinances can this dog be considered vicious because he will attack by command or in reaction and if so what os the difference between that sort of dog and a pit bull under a good responsible owner??"
Do we or do we not live under a different set of rules at times then law enforcement officers? Example: In an emergency, we aren't allowed to drive over the speed limit, whats gonna happen, we are going to get pulled over, officers don't know we have an emergency, but leo's, emt's and firefighters are allowed to by law. Besides, I have never heard about anyone being mauled to death by a police dog. Not saying it couldn't happen, but I think it would be a very low risk.
Stop being so negative and look at the benifits of getting a k9. If you are not doing anything illegal then no one should have to worry.
Thanks Jamie,
You can pay for it out of your pocket....ha ;-)
Wow all these gripes about a drug dog and nothing about the sports complex huh?
The handler arguement is moot due to the fact we already have several officers trained to do it.
As for the trash thing, have you ever seen a home that has been searched? The officers honestly have to go through everything and in some instances destroy your belongings in the search. Wouldn't you rather a dog walk through your home if this amazing trash can druggie hides his or her stash in your cans instead of having police have to go through your underwear drawers, possibly rip open a sofa or bed, and honestly find things that could be very embarassing? How many times in the last 5 years have the ACPD gone into a home in search of drugs and found nothing? I honestly don't know the answer but do to the fact I've never heard of an unlawfull search lawsuit in this town I'm guessing none. Honestly these men and women put their lives on the line for us and we complain when they want a tool to better do the job? It doesn't make sense. I believe the ultimate goal here is to scare drugs away from our town which would then lower the cost of prosecuting countless people every week, more kids would graduate and not need rehab, and ultimately make us a stronger community.
As for can a dog feed children? It depends how many kids, I find a BBQed German Sheppard could probably serve about 6- a joke.
I find a BBQed German Sheppard could probably serve about 6
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Yea but how many german sheppards ... oh never mind.
Some dogs have more socially redeeming value than some people. If I had to choose between the two ...
Oh come on laugh a little. You are at home I'll never know.
Im sorry.
I really meant that as a joke I was rolling with laughter when i wrote it. I loved your joke.
I was trying to play off yours.
Sorry mine didnt work.
:)
Hey my dog has more social redeeming value than I do. I am the one that was wrong, I'm so used to having people take me out of context I figured you had skipped the part where I supported the police and skipped straight to my joke. No harm no foul here, and I'm sorry for feeling everyone is against me:)
As noted by some folks in the federal gov. we are losing the war on drugs in this country. It seems like every time you here of a new tool to catch them they get a new way to get around that new tool, I amnot saying we don't need to keep trying but no one has ever said they see the bottom of this money pit on the war on drugs. Heck we won't even bomb the ones we know about in countries we can, nor are we stopping all the drug traffic we know about on the bordertowns of Mexico, they say if (if) the violance spills over ot the US then they will try harder to control it.
Just think we just put two boarder patrol officer in jail for shooting a smuggler and then gave the DRUG SMUGGLER a free pass to do it some more, SO regarless of a dog or not idiots will keep on doing what they do (DRUGS).
What they need is more snitches that talk I just wonder how a dog will testify
Reading this thread I just wonder if we could use the dog to sniff out bad commissioners and lock them up
JJ can it the dog do that
The war on drugs in this country is the biggest joke ever and a huge waste of taxpayer money over many years since it's inception. This country needs to look at Canada or Amsterdam first of all and folllow suit, starting with the decrimilazation of 'soft drugs' such as marijuana-what a HUGE waste of money for law enforcement to even bother with marijuana and spend countless dollars on arrests, court proceedings etc. Liquor, which is legal, causes more harm and deaths, yet society continues to demonize marijuana which is only slightly more intoxicating and ceertainly not any more dangerous, then the laughting gas you get at your dentist office! Amsterdam also focuses dollars on rehab and other programs to reduce the impact of drugs on society, whereas our country just spends more and more dollars on dogs and other means to fight this so called war on drugs that they have been losing since they started it and building more prisons and bigger jails to house all these 'horrible drug addicts' and drain even more tax dollars. Instead of a war on drugs, why don't they try Amstredam's approach of viewing it as the addiction it is and using the dollars instead to maybe build more rehab centers that all could afford-I would rather see my money spent that way, at least instead of supporting the offender in prison for the rest of their life, I might only have to support the offender until he was cured through a rehab program. One thing should be kept in mind about drug addiction-these people suffer just as an alcoholic or someone with a physical disease does. No one 'enjoys' being a drug addict, they are not the same person when addicted and many do commit crimes but a lot of these people would NEVER do these kind of things if not for their addiction. And why is it that here in America, alcoholism is viewed as a 'disease' instead of the addiction it really is? It is an addiction and a drug just like all the other illegal drugs, it has simply been legalized (probably because it was the 'drug of choice' for most people in high society). As for Arknasas City being some 'big ol drop off point', come on and give me a break! I think I would find Wichita more believable, and sure they travel through here and are here, but they are EVERYWHERE, we are no different but certainly not any higher on the scale! This is simply 'scare tatic propaganda' used by this 'war on drug' program to stir everbody up into agreeing with them. Another point I want to make is this-regardless of your point of view on drugs, we do have such a thing as civil rights in this country, but they just keep chipping away at them and someday we will have very few left. Set up points are nothing more than entrapment and so are dogs. Hell, why don't they just start going door to door with their dog in tow? They can eventually do the whole damn town and get all those evil drug addicts! When they can stop you for no reason or have a dog sniff you for no reason, then you are watching your civil rights being taken away. Police are supposed to be there to protect and serve, this is true, but I never thought that included seeking out for no reason or doing traffic stops for no reason, it is almost like they get to play the slots with the citizens and hope they will get lucky on a few spins! As to our local police force getting a dog (does this now replace the SWAT team wishes?), they should first do some major cutting of their huge budget, quit buying new cars every two years, and explain a recent judgement against them resulting in a payment of several hundred thousand dollars for the death of a young man caused by their negligence (I cannot say this really happened but a family member related this so I would think there is some truth in this statement)-things like this should be made public knowledge IMMEDIATLY and not hidden from the public as this was. The local newspaper needs to be reporting things such as this, and quit reporting only the 'hunky dory' news. Where or where is Auntie Bea
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