Just wanted to respond to yesterday's discussion.
I thought yesterday's discussion about jokes was interesting.
I do think people are too sensitive, and get too bent out of shape over minor offenses that really solve no problems. Im more interested in people really being equal - able to have opportunities in the real world - than i am in whether someone might be offended. What are we doing about crime, teen pregnancy, drugs, poverty and so forth among minority groups?
It is true that minorities have more poor people than white people. Part of that is injustice in the system - racism - and it is also due to their own attitudes. Being poor leads to other problems. What is our system doing to help people pull out of a system of poverty?
Keeping people in that cycle is a form of racism, even if you never offend a single one of them.
Someone telling a joke that "might" offend someone should be taken as just that ... a person using bad judgement or poor taste.
Arguing over it does nothing to help race relations - and actually harms race relations. Even more than the offense would have. I would say the offended party needs to be a little more mature and over-look the slight or offense. Thats so much better than having a few days of media glory and emotion. and it might actually help relations.
Sometimes we even argue over things that "might" be offensive. Please, why does "might offend" matter? Getting upset over it does empower the joke .. it gives it power over you. If you over look it, then it goes away...
It is like in sports - when people talk trash. If you get upset, it gets in your head and affects your game. If you just smile and focus on the game, you will play better, and that will get in your trash-talking opponents head. It is a power trip. Are you in charge of yourself, or do you give power to people who could offend you?
An aside - no one can "make" you angry. How you feel is how you choose to feel.
At one of my papers in South Carolina, the publisher liked to tell "bad" jokes about minorities. Black, hispanic, whatever, he told them. BUT - when it came time to hire someone, he hired the best person and never hesitated to hire a minority person. So, was he more of a racist than someone who would never say anything that MIGHT offend a black person, but somehow never seemed to actually work with them or do anything with them?
That being "offensive" is the worst thing you an do in our culture, shows how weak our culture is.
You might be offended at a joke on blacks, indians, handicapped, or even po white trash - but ... are you willing to do anything to help any of these people?
I say if you're not willing to actually help solve real problems, then you really have a lot of damn gall being offended at a little joke.
Hope that offends a few people :)
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44 comments:
You know, JJ, You preach a lot about how we all need to do something. What exactly do you do? It's a discussion that we've had on here for a long time and you seem to always tell us what we need to do, But you never tell us what you do.
You tell us that we're "too senseitive".. But yet you'll be the first person to cut a throat if your critiqued, Even if it's a slight critique. You get nasty and rude towards people, even if they're not even talking to you or about you. So while you cry to us that were too sensitive- Remember that people do see how you act, And I was for one shocked that an editor of a newspaper choose to get so personal and laugh at a racist comment.
Personally as a Christian, a mother, a person I was offended by the comment. I don't need to lighten up or to deal with it. It was a gross comment and that's how I feel. I don't need someone telling me that I'm sensitive because I choose not to laugh at some racist comment.
JJ, you can't discuss racism. You're white! If a minority makes a joke about whites, it's not racism, because only white people can be racist.
because only white people can be racist.
>
THAT is a racist comment.
THink about that. What is racist?
it is being against someone because of their race. It doesnt matter what race you are
I worked for UPS while i was in school. The supervisor for our shift was black, He was a great guy and a great leader, but he had one big flaw.
You had to get training and be certified to advance to a better job.
He offered black people training, made sure they were aware of it, made sure they got the chance to get that training.
If you were not black, you had to find out about it for yourself, and you had to ask him 5-6 times, and you had to do it on your own time.
Only then could you get it and advance.
How was that not racist?
I still liked working for him though. He had many other good qualities that offset that one thing. you could still get the training and advance, it just took more effort.
And I was for one shocked that an editor of a newspaper choose to get so personal and laugh at a racist comment.
>
I never said i laughed at it.
I said it was in bad taste. I also said i thought about deleting it, maybe i should have.
My point was that worrying about some joke is not the real issue.
Let's clarify here.
Someone posted a comment suggesting the Pizza Hut was booked for an inauguration party only because the KFC was unavailable and many commented that this was a racial joke that was not funny.
Well, I disagree.
I didn't post any of the comments.
It was a joke meant to imply that blacks, who would celebrate the inauguration of Obama, would be drawn to the KFC because they all eat fried chicken.
The chicken connection is a negro stereotype, kind of like white kansans being tobacco chewing hillbillies. The chicken issue is not really derisive or accurate, any more than claiming mexicans would be drawn to Taco Bell.
But it is part of the zeitgeist, the general common culture for both blacks and whites. If Chappelle made a joke about that, blacks would laugh. If Leno made a joke about it everyone would laugh. So everyone quit being so sensitive.
I've checked with a number of people of all sorts and yes it is funny. Real funny.
Stupid, shallow, inaccurate, but funny.
"But did you chuckle just a little?"
Did you edit that? Wasn't there a smilely face at the end? Either way- you should of deleted it, it was done in really poor taste....
I prayed about this last night and you know the thought that came to me was one that many of the people on here have pointed out countless times. We don't have a ton of resteraunt options in this town. Now I know this is going to be a stretch but what if the person who wrote the KFC remark wasn't emplying anything other than party at a fast food resteraunt? What if the people who got so offended actually are the ones that turned the comment racist? Isn't Pizza Hutt called Wing Street? Should we all get upset about that now? Honestly I was afraid that my metioning Why did the chicken cross the road as one of the few clean jokes in this world would bring forth such backlash too. I didn't intend it that way but hey there is probably someone out there that saw it that way. Just my thought of the day I guess.
"I take it that KFC was already booked?"
Yeah, Your right Zach.. Not a racist comment. It was all of US who turned that quote into a racist comment.
Zach is right.
There was a meaning intended by the writer. But its the meaning assigned by the readers that gives it power.
Wasn't saying it wasn't a racist comment just saying it is awful hard to tell off a one liner that we don't even know who wrote it.
Here is the part of this discussion I just can't seem to understand.
It is difficult for those who are in the vacuum of poverty to escape!
Racial or not!
There is a sense amoung groups that they don't want thier off spring to do better. That it was good enough for my parents or grandparents and is good enough for me and them!
The fact that there isn't a clear path or in some cases any path and that creates the type of atmosphere that promotes the same or even worse!
I rencently heard a segement on CNN a month or so ago by a woman of color. It was regarding her discussion of Marriage with inner-
city youth. Their response was that marriage was only for Whites.
Roll back time and I met a Man of color who had been released from prison to the cutody of his mother.
He was still upset (Blamed his problems) on the fact that when he was 17 he had a chance for a full ride football scholarship to a Jr.
College. But his parents wouldn't sign the letter of consent.
Now be it whatever color the problem is without a Vision they are lost! Trapped!
BILL IT: AC adds a charge for at-fault drivers
By Shane Farley
January 19, 2009 - 7:53:46 pm
Word of caution to inattentive, reckless or just plain unlucky drivers visiting Arkansas City: Cause an accident and there's a bill – covering the cost of the police investigation of the wreck – coming to a mailbox near you.
Ark City Chief Sean Wallace called the charge a Crash Investigation Recovery Free and confirmed that some people have already been billed. The recently-introduced fee attempts to recover the cost of diagramming, photography and report preparation that is part of any automobile accident.
There's about $3,500 in the recovery fee account thus far, Wallace said.
Here's how it works: police arrive at the scene of a car accident, conduct their investigation and determine who as at fault. Once that is determined a bill for the investigation fee is sent to the driver's insurance company.
Some insurance companies may refuse to pay and pass the charge onto the driver. NewsCow has received reports that bills in the range of $600 to $700 have been passed on to unsuspecting motorists. The fee only applies to out-of-town drivers because business owners and residents within the Ark City limits have presumably already paid taxes to fund such investigative services.
Wallace said the fee is way of recouping money spent on what he described as an investigation that mainly benefits insurance companies. In 2007, his department investigated 513 motor vehicle crashes.
In over percent 50 percent of those crashes – or 264 accidents - one or both drivers were out of town residents, he said. The city could choose to either bill those drivers or pass rising costs to taxpayers.
Sometimes referred to as a crash tax, the fees are becoming increasingly popular, according to various news and public information Web-sites. Many Florida cities have adopted similar fees.
Winfield's interim Police Chief Brett Stone said his department had gotten a call about the fee from someone who mistakenly believed a bill for crash investigation was sent by Winfield police. The city has no such fee and has not considered adopting one, he said.
“Our plan is just to continue doing what we're doing,” he said. “And we'll do it free of charge.”
_________________________________
So, not only do we have taxes and utilities MUCH higher than Winfield, we also have police officers charging $600 to $700 for doing their job. A job that takes maybe an hour or two. WOW, $300 bucks an hour. Where do I sign up?
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-presapp0605-31.html
Take a look at this chart. Very interesting. Look how low Clinton's approval ratings were throughout his presidency, yet you liberals couldn't wait to get Hillary into some office.
So, not only do we have taxes and utilities MUCH higher than Winfield, we also have police officers charging $600 to $700 for doing their job. A job that takes maybe an hour or two. WOW, $300 bucks an hour. Where do I sign up?
January 20, 2009 9:57 AM
WOW!!!!!
"yet you liberals couldn't wait to get Hillary into some office"
Ohh grow up and get a life, Are you the same person as your spouse? Why the hell are you even talking about this? So random and boring!
yes, my spouse has the same ideals and morals that I do. Thanks for asking.
Oh wait, I forgot we aren't allowed to put down liberals anymore.
I humbly ask your forgiveness in the name of Obama.
Thanks for the apology, Now you should apologzie for being small minded. Then I order you to get back on topic, Thanks a bunch!
I humble myself before the liberal majority, and beg your forgiveness.
honky! (that's me getting back on topic)
I will sacrifice a puppy when I get home. I promise.
I feel the wind of change blowing.
I FEEL it.
To hell with you haters. I have been blown and it feels good.
OK, the KFC joke is not much to worry about. I agree, for the most part. But where do you draw the line on what is acceptable or offensive and what is not. I tend to not trust the judgement of our community much. For evidence to my belief, I submit most of the comments on these blogs everyday. And many of these people are either raising kids, or taking care of people that cannot or will not make decisions for themselves.
The other side of the extreme to something like the KFC joke from Monday is stuff like Fred Phelps and his band of misfits from Topeka, the ones that protest military funerals because the say they are against homosexuality. That is another brand of interolerance, which is much more offensive and not considered acceptable for society by most people.
The issue in my mind is where do you draw the line. I think this is an imporant issue in our town because we still have young people at our high school that write intolerant statements on other students cars, and we have a mayor (who I actually think means well in most that he does for the town) who chooses to dress in drag and wear blackface and act foolish in public.
Where is the line of what is OK and what is not, AND do you really trust each other to make that decision.
That is why I do not tolerate the statements like the KFC joke in my presence without speaking out about how it is wrong.
you speaking up about how wrong it is does not help
2 wrongs do not make a right
Zach, thanks for bringing up the point about eating establishments (I wrote it that way because I've never been sure how to spell restaraunt?). I have to admit when I first read the comment about KFC I chuckled. The reactions of others kind of took be back a bit. I did not, at all, connect race with that comment. I no longer live in Ark City, but I am very aware of the lack of restaraunts and that was what I thought the comment was insinuating.
Bad Taste Items! We're charging out of towners to investigate a fender bender when they come to town! "SHOP AT HOME" AC merchants you better wake up. When this gets around and it will, Gosh why the hell should I shop in Arkansas City. Many years ago we were know as Stink City [a reference to the starch plant]. Whats next, highest tax city on the prarie?
Ummm, bad taste. Charging someone extra $$ to get their water turned back on. Duh. If they had it turned off is is going to help them any to tack on a hefty little gotcha fee? Are we really that desperate for money?
Are we really that desperate for money?
January 20, 2009 4:24 PM
Apparently so. Sad isn't it?
Are we really that desperate for money?
January 20, 2009 4:24 PM
Apparently so. Sad isn't it?
You all are slipping...You forgot to bring up the "not getting the Lowes" this week.
Oh yeah, THANKS ZACH!
It was a joke meant to imply that blacks, who would celebrate the inauguration of Obama, would be drawn to the KFC because they all eat fried chicken.
The chicken connection is a negro stereotype, kind of like white kansans being tobacco chewing hillbillies. The chicken issue is not really derisive or accurate, any more than claiming mexicans would be drawn to Taco Bell.
Well first of all it seems that folks around here live are stuck in a vacuum (their on little world). This shows how much everyone in this town shows, respects, or even knows their neighbor. I would think that even if one thought they maybe offending either the person they are speaking to or a friend of that person. It would be better if whom ever started this would just think am I going to offend any one by what I say or write. Stupidity has a stop button on it is called your brain or in some people a conscious. If you know that there are some people who are sensitive to certain kind of jokes keep it inside your back pocket and sit on it. The whole world knows that racism, stereotyping is alive in the world and America or Ark City is not immune to any of it. I was always told if you think (THINK) it may be offensive to any body keep it to yourself or among your best friends, those who you know do not have any other friends other than you (in other words bird of a feather) get the meaning) In order to not cause conflict of any sort just say it to yourself and let people be people sensitive or not!! To the other smart things you have to say. (SHOW YOUR IQ not YOUR QUESTIONABLE INTELEGENCE).
GROW UP a CHILD is WATCHING YOU AND LISTENING TOO
JJ as a Christian you should know that the word says treat others like you would like to be treated and that means with RESPECT
N.N.T.R. JJ
since when did offending somone really become a thing to be concerned about, grow up and learn that life is full of things that may offend you,, better yet figure out that if being offended is all you have to worry about ,, you have it pretty damn good
Papa says this whole blog thing is pretty intimidating to the few ethnic minorities who live in southern Cowley.
Hypothetically speaking:
There are ten people in a room. 9 are all the same race. One is different race. One of the nine tells a joke with a slam about the only minority. The other eight debate whether or not the minority should feel offended. How safe should the lone minority feel?
That is what it is like to be part of only 5% of the population and read or hear about this type of anonymous discussion from our neighbors and community and business leaders.
This is becoming a frightening and mean spirited community. Of course, there simply is no resource for protection. There is no one in this community tasked with protecting the minority group’s safety.
There is no one to investigate or enforce civil rights violations. As far as anyone can tell, all these anonymous bloggers might authority figures. That's what makes marginally offensive little jokes told by anonymous bloggers in a 90% white community such an issue.
You never know when someone is going to decide to prove their point at the expense of some unsuspecting target.
Once again if you wish to personally assault me then the place would be here
http://deceasedrabbit.blogspot.com/
That way you don't have to waste everyone elses time with insults directed at me. I even set it up now so that you can remain anonymous. Awesome of me huh? Honestly after the day I've had do your worst. Lowes is the least of my worries. Just wondering though where's all my support people? Someone cracks a tasteless joke at my expense and none of you come running? Kind of that double standard I've been talking about. Want some more?
What's an old tradition in Ark City linking back to the 1800's and has the motto Yes we have it?
Wallgreens (history buffs will get that one)
New logo Bryant Hardware Have you tried Ace yet?
Bryant Hardlyware
What is pierced tattooed likes skateboarding and is an asset to the town?
Don't know but I'll let you know if we ever figure it out.
Dang sorry I know these aren't very good but as I say please feel free to go to my stupid, honky, freakshow page and add whatever ones you all tell around the water cooler.
Get over yourself Zach. Nobody cares about you enough to discuss you around the water cooler.
Well, nobody on here anyway.
"Get over yourself Zach. Nobody cares about you enough to discuss you around the water cooler.
Well, nobody on here anyway."
Speak for yourself.
Zach Bryant seems to be just about the only person in town with a personality and intelligent reasoning in a town that is mind numbingly dreary with its "don't do things that children couldn't see. And you can't tell a joke because you're Christian.
I was really po'ed when John left town, because Ark City became stupid without him.
But now Zach is hitting his stride. How cool.
The rabbit is dead, Long live the rabbit. (King)
But now Zach is hitting his stride. How cool.
>>
Only six days left to register for city commission ...
I won't be running for commision JJ and here is why. I can't guarantee I'll be here. I have a struggling business and fight every day to make it work but every angle I attack it from seems moot. Please no one write me in it would be a wasted vote. Vote for men like Mr. McDonald or whoever but don't let that be the end of it. Get your butts into his business and make him listen to you. Speak out for whats right. Discuss topics (and solutions) that pretain to this town and our government around your (metaphorical) water coolers so that others will observe what is going on. The water bill thing may have never passed if people got involved and cared before it did. Remember that as Americans our government is supposed to work for us and when it doesn't it isn't the government that failed it is the people who turned a blind eye that has.
Zach im not running either.
some people encouraged me to, and i thought about it
but it would just be too much of a conflict with working at the traveler.
Calling white people racist- as usual- and yet- the only 'name calling' here is 'honky' now isn't that what black people call white people- but I guess that isn't racist if a white person isn't doing it? do you see how intelligent that sounds? about as intelligent as the person saying honky apparently.
Calling white people racist- as usual- and yet- the only 'name calling' here is 'honky' now isn't that what black people call white people- but I guess that isn't racist if a white person isn't doing it? do you see how intelligent that sounds? about as intelligent as the person saying honky apparently.
since when did offending somone really become a thing to be concerned about
Since it became a point of fact that you could end up in a court of law behind saying something could be considered to be creating a hostile enviroment be it at work on a public setting
since when did offending somone really become a thing to be concerned about
you are so out of date with the honky word get out of the 60's
Since it became a point of fact that you could end up in a court of law behind saying something could be considered to be creating a hostile enviroment be it at work on a public setting
>>
The founding fathers who wrote that freedom of speech thing must be spinning in their graves.
Yeah, its "cracker" now! :)
The problem with isms is that they are founded on folks drawing a conclusion on an entire population based on either your own imagination or on limited observation.
There is no behavior that can accurately be assigned to "EVERY" person of any ethnic background or group.
And, YES there are ethnic minorities of African descent who might use racilly derogatory labels towards majority populations.
Howver, there are those who detest insulting or offensive language otwards any group.
That notion might be worth considering before one starts spouting off about what some population of people say about another.
Some of us strive to use only the Christian language of love and understanding. Treat others the way you would like to be treated.
Ask a person what they would like to be called and then honor that if at all possible. Those are concepts by which some people live.
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