We haven't talked that much about the crash report fee. The police are billing insurance companies for accident reports. Of course, insurance companies are refusing to pay and send the bills back to the customer.
The city says it will not try to collect from city residents, but will from out of town residents. That includes people who live 100 yards out of town.
The bills seem large to me. Sometimes $400 - $600.
Ark City is the first city in Kansas to do this.
There is talk among city commissioners about reversing the ruling because of the outcry.
The insurance companies are in essence getting a free service by getting reports from the city. To some extent, the taxpayers are subsidizing the insurance companies by paying the police to do their work for them.
Im just not sure $400 is warranted, let alone $600.
Should be interesting. What do you all think.
Posts
70 comments:
As a former officer, I think the amount charged is way too high. Simple accident reports take an hour at the most, and there is no way any officer's time is worth that much. I can see a reasonable charge to the insurance company, representing actual time spent on the accident report, but those quoted fees are too high.
Also, I read somewhere that towns who do this have a cut of that money going to a firm that handles the transactions for the city. Is that the case with our city as well? The police should not be making profit for themselves or anyone else as far as I'm concerned. They use taxpayer money to "serve and protect", not to make money for the city. They bring in enough with fines.
correct , that is a program that was sold to wallace , the 3rd party gets a cut as well , great deal if you are selling the program to put food on the table
What if both partys are at fault? Do they both get a $600 bill or is the bill then split in half? What if it is found to be a no fault accident, then does no one get the bill? Is there another agency we can call in the event of a wreck or does the police department have a monopoly on this profitable market?
"correct , that is a program that was sold to wallace , the 3rd party gets a cut as well"
Reminds me of a get rich quick scheme a few years ago they were calling "cashflowing". It involved double and sometimes triple billing hospital patients for bills from local hospitals. They got some slimeball lawyer / collection agency to file hundreds of lawsuits in Cowley District Court.
Funny thing is the slimeballs never informed the people they were being sued and everybody got default judgements because they were unaware of the lawsuit and would have contested it if they knew.
I have recently seen an infomercial with the ex-manager of the Wellington airport going on and on about how rich she became by suing her neighbors with this program. She got a cut too.
If the police can't protect us from these get-rich-quick infomercial slimeballs, then who will?
It is time to stop the program now.
People from outside the city have already stated if they have to choose a place to shop they will choose Winfield. If they are in an accident here they will have to pay. This is an accident not something they intended to do, but an accident! Thanks Chief Wallace for stabbing the business owners in the back again. It is hard enough in this economy with out our local police putting up road blocks. I doubt you will make much money compared to the amount of taxes that will be defered to Winfield and others. Why would anyone want to shop here knowing if they have an accident it may cost them 600 bucks. I checked and in the last couple of years I have donated almost $1000 bucks to FOP Dare and other police department activities. I will now save my money back in case I have an accident in your town Chief Wallace!
The direction Wallace is taking this Police Department is the wrong direction. I'm sure he means well, but his my way or the highway leadership style is turning a lot of people against him. Now charging crazy amounts of money to work an accident? Get real.
The commissioners are talking about reversing the ruling because of outcry or because of upcoming elections?
This is an absurd attempt at capitalizing on casino traffic at the expense of people who live and shop in Arkansas City. The police department has a responsibility to serve and protect all people who enter our city limits - bottom line.
“Vendors are convincing municipalities that the insurance industry is sitting on a piggy bank,” said Joseph Thesing, director of state affairs for the National Association of Mutual Insurance Companies, who testified before the NCOIL panel.
“These services are not typically covered by insurance, but if more municipalities undertake these billing practices, more insurers will be paying more claims and, ultimately, those claims will result in higher rates,” Mr. Thesing warned.
Missouri and Pennsylvania have already banned such fees, according to the American Insurance Association, and the Indiana legislature just sent a bill to the governor to follow suit. But that still leaves 47 states out there with no such prohibition."
Maybe Ark City could be a vanguard and a leader in legislation.
They could pass an ordinance prohibiting the Police Department from charging this unfair fee.
The only thing unfair about it is that motorists don't know about the policy until they have a wreck.
The city should put up signs at the edge of town that say:
"If you are from out of town and cause a wreck in Ark City, we will charge you $600.00"
Just let them know what a friendly and welcoming place this sunny little community can really be.
It's the people that make Ark City so special.
I thought thats what my tax dollars were for. Can I choose not to have an officer respond? What about break ins and burguleries? Will there be a charge for investigating these as well? What's next, will I get a bill when the fire department comes to my house to put out a fire? Will I have to pay if I want the street in front of my house plowed or sanded? Maybe we should pay teachers to grade tests?
I think the fee is pretty high but a good idea. Remember it is only for out of town people not for the citizens of the city who is already paying for the police. Your insurance company gets a bill from the city if you are transported by ambulance. Do you really think it would stop people from coming to AC? Would you stop going to Wichita or elsewhere if these fee was implemented? Sounds like a bogus excuse to me
the fees will be collected through your income tax refunds, there is no reason why the law needs to sue you or chase you for the money, and it is uncontestable
From what I can see that this billing process will give law enforcement the power to place blame on one of the drivers when both may have a percentage of blame. I am not sure I want them to decide who pays anyway. That is what the courts do. Especially if the accident involves someone they know and in a town this size that is very likely. Tell me how that can be fair. Does that make them judge and jury?
"Do you really think it would stop people from coming to AC? Would you stop going to Wichita or elsewhere if these (sic) fee was implemented?"
Kansas loses almost all of the interstate truck traffic to Arkansas and Missouri because of the toll road.
Of course people would quit coming to Ark City and don't fool yourself into thinking they wouldn't. Put up the signs and watch it happen.
If I was from out of town and had to pay $600 for a minor fender bender (because the insurance co. wouldn't pay) or knew my insurance rates went up because of a claim from Ark City PD, then I would never come back to Ark City unless I absolutely had to. Who would?
A number of towns where this is a "success" are facing class action lawsuits because this is not considered "even and fair" treatment under the law. It targets only out-of towners.
All we need is an officer to determine the out-of-towner was at fault instead of the townie in a vague case and bang: Lawsuit. Ark City will have to lose a million dollars before they come to their senses.
Ark City keeps sabotaging their own future.
When will it stop?
January 29, 2009 9:58 PM
"Remember it is only for out of town people not for the citizens of the city who is already paying for the police."
So, you don't care because it won't affect you? What about when Winfield follows suit and implements this idiotic law? Or Ponca? Or Wichita? If we let it stand because it doesn't hurt those of us who live here, then we will see it spread. NOW is the time to stop this.
"Missouri and Pennsylvania have already banned such fees, according to the American Insurance Association, and the Indiana legislature just sent a bill to the governor to follow suit. But that still leaves 47 states out there with no such prohibition."
Um, I don't necessarily agree with this policy but citing quotes from the American Insurance Association doesn't exactly hold much weight with me. They are a lobbying group for insurance companies, of course,they are against the policy. They were obviously very successful in MO and PA to get the policy banned but that doesn't inherently make it a bad policy.
Frankly, I am not exactly sure on this one but I do think that $600 is probably too high. And it isn't just the officer's time but the person who processes the paperwork.... and other admin stuff..
My thought was how much will they spend to go after the out of town people to collect the fee? Will it cost more than the $600....
Honestly, I don't think that a reasonable fee to the insurance company for them to obtain an accident report is that ridiculous.....but more along the lines of.... say $20 or $30.
Kansas is a no fault state for accidents so I am not sure how they decide who is at fault.
Had a wreck in the county and the first question I was asked by my insurance company was if the AC police had responded for any reason. They were thrilled when I said no since that meant it would be another charge. The other driver's insurance has assumed liability but would not have covered that charge. It is a major issue to deal with car repair issues and injury claims...this just adds time and effort to the entire situation.
I meant that in the previous post that had the policee responded it would have been another charge when I said no...if was good for them and for me. It would have meant just another hassle
Even if the citizens of Ark City don't have to pay the fee, the insurance companies are not based in Ark City, and when their customers from elswhere start having to pay these fees, the insurance companies are going to raise rates on ALL of us, no matter where we live. Do you really think the insurance companies are going to pull money out of their pockets to pay these extra fees?
Let's get this right! You are driving down the street and because of your inattention or stupidity (you are either on your cell phone or day dreaming) and you run into me a cause an accident you feel that you should not have to pay for the investigation. When the police arrive they very quickly know that you caused the accident. They really do not need the accident report to determine that you are stupid. They are only required to fill it out so some Fat Cat with your insurance company can say “I guess our client is stupid because he caused the accident, so let’s pay for the damages and jack up his rates” and by the way we thank the Ark City PD for spending an hour of their time preparing the report for us.
Here’s a thought, why don’t we make the insurance companies keep an investigator on the payroll to come out and fill out the accident reports that they use?
Police should not be determining fault, that is a courts job, the police are only responsible for upholding laws, and presenting eveidence
MY next question would be, why can,t the police department learn to do business under thier budgets just like all other City Departments
I agree very strongly with this statement "The police should not be making profit for themselves or anyone else as far as I'm concerned. They use taxpayer money to "serve and protect", not to make money for the city. They bring in enough with fines"
I know of 2 people living in Ark City who had accidents in the last month who received bills.
Opening scene:
Frozen morning in Mayberry, but the Sheriff's office is nice and warm. Andy is rocked back in his chair with his feet on the desk, reading a 2 year old Field and Stream......
Barney Fife enters stage left, in a flustered panic.
Barney: Andy, Andy! we got the crime of the century out on the bypass!
Andy: Slow down there Barn, whats going on?
Barney: Well,... we got these out-of-towners, you see, and they keep coming inta town and sliding on the ice and running into our neighbors.
And bein they are out-of-towners we should charge them six hundred dollars and make their insurance companies pay Mayberry for our expenses, you see.
Andy: Well, there Barn, I'll bet they're nice folks just like you and me and they don't really mean nothin by the wrecks. It's just accidents, you see?
Barney: Well, Andy, you just don't get it, see.
We have to make them pay Mayberry for all the cost of working those accidents.
Andy, look, we got radios and handcuffs and jails and police type cars and all of our training and lots of stuff they should be paying for.
Andy: Well, lets just slow down and think about all of those things a minute, Barn.
Yeah, we got radios, but we would have those radios even if these out-of-towners didn't have a wreck.
Yeah, we have an office and a jail, but we would have those things anyway.
And yeah, we pay your salary and pay for your police cruiser, but we would have to do that anyway, even if the out-of-towners never came here.
So I'm trying to understand, just what is it we have to pay to work these accidents that we wouldn't have to pay anyway?
Barney: Well Andy! You know! I have to fill out the report and there is expensive cost to that and I have to take pictures and that costs money too!!
Andy: Well Barn, how much did that cost? Didn't you use pre-printed forms and a digital camera?
I don't think it even cost us for film. Barn, we need to think about this a minute.
How would you feel if Aint Bea or Thelma Lou was treated that way over in Asheville?
Barney: Well you know me Andy, I'd be plenty steamed I'd go over there and give them a real piece of my mind, I'd get their dander up, you know, I'd really do it.
Andy: Well there Barn, we need to remember the golden rule and treat folks the way that is fitting.
Barney: Oh Andy, I guess you're right, but it just steams me they they can come over here and drive on our roads and everything!
Andy: Yeah Barn, but we can't just be mean because they're strangers.
When you have a CRACK pOT FOR a Police Chief, and a lunitic for a mayor, your going to have alot of stupid going on
I live out in the county but have a PO box in the city, I have to come into the city every day. If they insist on this insanity I will get my PO box in another town as I do commute to another town daily for work. I will avoid AC completly. It is your choice AC commissioners!
I'm not saying I agree with the tax but I do have a couple questions. First being how many less people are coming to Ark City now then before this was in effect? Second don't the police have to file a wreck with your insurance company anyways causing your premium to go up? And finally aren't we kind of driving people away from this town every time we deface our public officials? I thought Ark City was falling off the map more from the large bipass that makes access to the cassinos that much easier by not having to slowly drive through the town. Maybe I'm wrong but some numbers would be nice to see on this. How much did shopping drop in other towns that instituted these fines? Really I'm not disagreeing with anyone (other then people whose arguements are just name calling, honestly that is never constructive) I'm just wondering why there was a need for such billings in the first place. Again I'd like to thank the ACPD for their service and also for the tollerence they have been showing the skater kids lately. I've heard a lot of possitives from the kids about you guys lately and have heard some vice versa from police about the kids. That is awesome police work guys my hat is off to you and I thank you.
It would make a little more sense if every officer who responded to a accident was a board certified accident reconstructionist but they are not, so how are they going to believe that they know who in an accident was at fault, answer they can't all they can do is assume and to assume is the (mother of all screw ups). And the cost to train one officer per shift in this field would not pay for itself. Besides the fact that if trained person see's he can make more money working for the Insurance Company directly we loose are investment and have to start all over again. JUst think how much it cost the city to train Cheif Wallace to make him the head CHeif in charge I cooking now! LOL
But this is real folks $$$$$$
Maybe the police are doing too much investigating on the accidents.
In other states I have lived in, where I have had an accident, you go to the police station and get the accident report for like $2.
Its one page, maybe two. Has basic details and that is all it has.
Maybe they really don't need to be doing as detailed of a report.
One thing too. The insurance companies are getting a free service from the police - from the taxpayers. Which adds to their profit margin.
"The insurance companies are getting a free service from the police"
1. What a stinky load. The insurance companies don't care if the cops work the accident report or not. They accept accident claims with no accident report.
2. You can't measure the number of people who don't come to town any more than you can measure the sales you didn't make. Trust me. It is the same equation.
3. 99.999% of all communities in the U.S don't charge more than 20 bucks for a copy of an accident report. You would think that when a slick salesman came to make his pitch, the ACPD might have paused to think before they hired them to charge $600 (instead of $20).
4. Cops are supposed to protect us from conmen. Apparently, some of them are gullible enough to fall for the cons themselves.
The company says it is not about profit, it is about improving the community. Let's see if they stick around if the charge was $20.
A better fee could come from people who die in town. Those who have passed wouldn't be upset, and most of the money could come from death benefits and life insurance.
If the insurance companies refused and the estate had to pay, the bill could be split among the family members and it wouldn't be as expensive as the accident fee.
AC could charge as much as 3 or 4 thousand dollars and that could go directly into the tax fund.
What a great idea.
Or a $10,000 city inspection fee for new construction work.
OK, it IS stupid, but it is the same thing as the accident fee.
If AC needs money, then why not refuse to supply free city services to companies who are not in the city limits. Offer to supply them if they will agree to annexation or charge them a fee for city services.
Most of the industries in town are right at the city limits and receive water and sewer, fire and police protection, but pay absolutely no city taxes.
You could start there.
i agree with that the services should be charged for, Kan Pac and Creekstone pay very small fees for this service
Its the same old senerio JJ will not report the cover ups in the city just like he choses to ignore the wastwater treatment plant fiasco and the city employees sueing for discrimination , we live in a world of coverups here in AC and that is what makes us so mad, if only we could have honesty and the stupid people who keep defending the crooked thiefs would open their eyes, that is the only way we will ever get this mess cleaned up and start moveing forward.
And now we find desperation in our police force attempting to further the long reach of the law to your pocketbook, where I ask you did we begin to let the seams of Justice and wright and wrong come unraveled?
Could it be that the travler is in bed with the missery that prevails amongst us, We do indeed find that news and censor ship walk side by side in this fallen city whose faith in gOD HAS FALLEN TO find his wrath waiting silently to distroy the demon which lives within, but sadly we watch as Satan draws his bow in the actions of a Police chief and blindly follow with no recourse to his hellish control that undoubtbly will grow into a beast so great that every aspect of your life will be hindered by denile of happiness.
We the people need a voice strong enough to toppel this saddened afair we call leadership, and take control of our lives and seperate ourselves from those who wish to rape and pillage what our ancestors have built
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The problem is lack of human consideration. Whether it is Mell doing his dark-face schtick or the police extorting nonresidents.
We should identify who actually paid the $3500 and send it back with an apology. Maybe include some chamber bucks to get them back.
What if your son or grandmother went to Emporia and had a minor accident, only to get a bill from the PD for $600.00 that wasn't part of the damage and wasn't covered by insurance?
Has anyone ever had a wreck in an unfamiliar town?
How people rate a town is based on how strangers treat them. How would Ark City rate?
I agree with musiclover (10:29). That is what they would think.
How many wrecks in AC include out of town drivers? Another good question is how many of those out of town drivers were drinking at the cassino?
I was involved in a small accident in a parking lot a couple of years ago, and the Police Department said it was my fault, but when reviewed by the insurance company, they determined that the other guy was at fault. So now if that happened to an out of towner, the city might get sued for trying to profit on the accident when they shouldn't have.
Many small little accidents are under $500 dollars, and need not be reported to the police, but if they are, and a report is taken, the person at fault gets a bill for more than it will cost to fix the car.
This is a disgraceful money grab, and the city leaders should be ashamed of themselves. Next thing you know, they will be charging us to take a theft report. It takes just as much time as an accident report does.
The question I revisit is, "why does it cost more for an officer to spend 30 minutes taking an accident report than it does for the same officer to ride around patroling Summit for speeders or other."
Once they are on the clock, the cost is the same. I am not clear as to why an accident report costs more.
We need to pay for what they do. They protect us. They do it in 8 or 12 hour shifts. When the city budget is passed the cost for personnel is figured in. I don't think there is any "per event" factor.
Charels this is a way the officers can get more money for special projects and toys that the city would not normaly fund.
we do need to keep our officers happy and content with their jobs
we also need to make sure they have the very best tools, God forbid some terrorist comses and tries to take our treasure.
What i cant figure out is why they havent used the create fear tactic to get the public to buy them.
who will be responsible for the payment if one of our city employees has a accident and it is found to be her fault?? will the city pay the 600 or will the employee.
Dead Rabbit you embarass me even being from the same town, i pray you leave it soon
"Charles this is a way the officers can get more money for special projects and toys that the city would not normally fund."
Why would the city not fund the toys and projects? Think about it.
It is senseless extortion.
I'll bet the collection company has to make 200 presentations to citys before they fine one stupid enough to fall for it.
They found one in Ark City.
It is time to stop it now.
Wow, another personal attack with no arguement or valid statement attached. Suprise! Here I will make it easy on you why do I embarass you and make you feel that I should leave town? Is it because I ask for numbers and facts that may better explain the situation so that I don't just blindly follow? I stated that I don't agree with this policy but I still would like to know some of the answers to the questions I raise. Sorry I don't just conform to your way of thinking. Oh yeah and I got news for you I have at least ten more years of living in this town. My son is the most important thing in my life and I will do whatever I must to stay close to him as he grows up. Sorry if this inconveniences you. (Side note- I had more people come into the store to laugh at the anonymous pictures I posted on my own blog then JJ says actually posts on here. Maybe I'm not the minority in this town. Scary huh?)
and the city employees sueing for discrimination ,
>>
A few complaints have been filed
but no suits have been filed
I hope this will stop the insults but if not I don't think there is anything else I can do.
Who Am I?
So I had one hell of a weird day that I won't get into because, well frankly it has nothing to do with the topic. Heck I've had a weird week to say the least and it helped to create my topic here. You see I spend some of my free time doing what I love and that is debating. I was captain of the debate team my junior year and honestly it just never gets out of your blood. The problem I have as I was told today is that I'm an easy target with my piercings, tattoos, clothing style, life style, etc. which causes me to get slammed by people who must have nothing better to do. Most of the time they don't even contribute to the debate they just try to hit me below the belt. Honestly it hurts, if you don't think that my feelings can get hurt then you are far less human then I give you credit for. But I endure, I keep living the way I feel is best for me and I try and ignore the labels that get slapped on me. I was asked a couple days ago by a 13 year old that I consider a very good friend if he should get his lip pierced. I told him no which gained me the question of if I was going to be a hypocrite. My response was that no one should get their lip pierced if they are not ready to take abuse every day for the fact that they have it and until he is strong enough to let it slide off his back rather then raise his fists then he should not. I let a lot slide off my back but the mix in my blood lines leaves you with a very sarcastic person that once again likes to debate and will normally have a retort. Why do women pierce their ears? Does that make any more sense then a pierced lip or belly button? Shouldn't grandmas everywhere be the same social outcasts as the woman with a tongue and eyebrow ring? Why do people get piercings? I know the answer do you? It is an ancient custom to keep evil spirits from entering the body that is even mentioned in the bible. So next time you see a satanist walking along with his giant nose ring you now know he is a walking contradiction. Fun huh? Regardless my tats and piercings, concert t-shirts and red AC baseball cap may say a lot about my interests but do not make me the man I am. First I am a father who loves his son more than I will ever love anyone else. I am a loyal friend that will sacrifice himself to try and help those I love. I am a man of the community that interacts with even the people most deem unworthy. I am an artist who draws and writes not only for the pleasure of just doing so but also to expand my mind so that it doesn't grow stale. I'm a mentor whether in the sports I sponser and coach, the skaters I take to towns more tollerant of them, or just the random child that just needs a shoulder to cry on or an ear to listen. I'm a monster in that I don't have any desire to fall in line with the rest of society and have the world tell me who I am. I'm a fan of film and music of all kinds and respect anyone who pushes themselves to any form of artistry. I'm a debater who will often take a side in an arguement that I don't even believe in order to just show there is always two sides. I'm a boss meaning I put my employees first and make sure that their is nothing I can't cut back on myself rather then cut their jobs. I'm a patriot that believes in my country, my community and it's people though the feeling isn't always returned. I'm a questioner who doesn't just accept simple yes or no answers I feel it is everyones duty to know the when, where, why and the how. Most of all, I'm me plain old Zach Bryant. In other places in the USA I would be considered a square when here I am labeled odd. The thing is I'm ok with odd because if I can run down that list every night and have the same answers I think that when my day comes God and I will be just fine. The questioner in me has to ask though how do you think he will feel about the name calling and insults? Ok so if you don't believe in God let me ask how do you feel about the name calling and insults? I don't know how many times I have appologized and I will do it again here but honestly that is all I can do. I'm so very sorry for any wrong I may have done any and all of you. If you choose to accept the appology then thank you if you need more then that then let me know and I will personalize it. If you decline my appology then there is nothing more I can do so I guess hurl your rude comments my way if it help you to sleep better at night. I am the Dead Rabbit, I have love in my heart and family by my side and there isn't a thing that anyone can do or say to take that away from me. Thank you for reading I tried to catch the mis-spelled words for you all.
January 31, 2009 7:03 PM
The city won't fund new toys and projects because there are budget cuts ripping through everything right now. $30000 was just pulled from our roads fund and many of our roads are in need of some repair as it stands right now. Bad roads can drive people away from our town just as easily as these high fines. Once again I am not in favour of these fines but I'm saying there are a lot of factors driving people around our quaint little town right now. We need more involvement in community projects in order to bring people to town. JJ's battle of the bands leading to the music festival, great parks, events such as Prairie Fest, Arkalalah, and Last Run, we have cool heritage we seem to see as a curse while the rest of the US is profiting on theirs (i.e. the mob museum in Vegas, do we provide any shuttles to the casinos?, the bridge tour could expand to old architecture also) It's easy to blame this fine for no people coming to town but I've asked friends in Winfield, Ponca, Wichita, and Kansas City if they have heard we do this and only one in Winfield knew about it. She said she drives far more attentive in Ark City. Maybe a previous poster was right and these absurd fines may decrease wrecks due to people putting down their cell phones and such. I still think it is far too high but there is at least one plus
Neither the city nor the hospital raised funds to pay for their ads. The ads they bought were paid out of the city's and hospital's budgets, officials said.
The city bought four ads in the Traveler costing $1,747.92, its report shows.
___________________________________
Pasted from the Traveler story regarding ads for hospital bond...
Why was the city paying for such advertisements? Were they promoting this or just getting the word out on the vote?
"The city won't fund new toys and projects because there are budget cuts ripping through everything right now."
If the fines for AWNR (accident while being a non-resident) are truly to re-imburse the taxpayers, then the money goes back to the city general fund instead of being kept by the police department. We might want to have accounting look into it.
If it is used to create a police department slush fund to pay for "toys and projects" without receiving city overview, administration or approval, then that may be illegal.
Where was the city manager when this was happening. Isn't it his job to keep the city out of these things? Someone has to be the adult. Where was he?
Cost Recovery Corporation has been going around misleading municipalities into thinking that police accident response fees are covered under bodily injury or property damage liability coverage.
That one is a no-brainer. All you have to do is check your policy. It's not.
The CRC has been leaving a trail of lawsuits and legislative legal fees behind them and when there are problems, they disappear.
Even Ark City has engaged the services of the State AG.
Ark City will eventually be left holding the bag on this one.
It's not too late for the city to return the money that has been paid in so far, and tell these crooks to go find another town to fall for their scheme.
I fear that if this goes on, lawsuits will follow, and the city will end up paying more money (either in legal fees or settlements) than it will take in.
Stop this now.
I live out in the county but have a PO box in the city, I have to come into the city every day. If they insist on this insanity I will get my PO box in another town as I do commute to another town daily for work. I will avoid AC completly. It is your choice AC commissioners!
January 30, 2009 10:02 PM
No one cares about where you get you mail!
Sorry for this guys -
I know if I leave the rabbit guy alone, he will most likely be quiet, he is a very defensive person. You know what GB Shaw said about wrestling with pigs. (Never do it because you just end up dirty and besides, the pig likes it.) BUT...You know you can write your post on a word doc, then spell check, copy and paste, right? Also, you seem to be obsessed with the fact that letting people know who you are on a blog makes you a man, or is some sort of admirable quality. You do realize there are cases in which signing real names is out of the question, right? The advent of the internet has given rise to the Global Village Idiot (Dont freak out, I'm not calling you an idiot, it's just a fun quote).
or is some sort of admirable quality. You do realize there are cases in which signing real names is out of the question, right?
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I think signing his name is admiral and respectable.
I cannot think of any legitimate reason to not sign your name. You cannot claim to be anonymous is respectable by any stretch.
Fred G. Sanford period
Yeah, but if you're gonna sign it, then sign it right.
If a carpenter or car repair shop (or Mafia) was forcing people to pay $600 for a service that was available everywhere else in Kansas for $10.00 then the police would go to the business and arrest them for fraud.
If the ACPD can't justify why 15 minutes of work would be worth $600, then that is fraud too.
The difference is when the police are doing it and the "customer" has no choice to refuse the "service" or any options to choose a competitive supplier, then that is a crime called extortion.
Anyone know a good attorney?
No one cares about where you get you mail!
My point exactly! They also don't care where I shop or buy my gas or anything else or they would stop this crash tax now!NO MORE CRASH TAX!
Zach, get over yourself. We are trying to ciscuss the crash tax, and I am forced to read your long winded self absorbed BS, just in case it talks about the crash tax. In one sentence, you talk about how it bothers you that people talk about you, and in the next sentence, you talk about how big a man you are because you put your name on your posts. You can't have it both ways.
That's why the smart people stay anonymous.
I agree,,all he can do is talk about how much he does for the community and what a great civic leader he is and the great mentor abilities he has and how much he loves his child, bla bla bla and how he takes care of the skaters
and how reverent he is, you may be a great Guy Zack but your so full of yourself no one wants to hear it anymore
I don't think there are any smart people.
That's why we have the crash tax.
you talk about how big a man you are because you put your name on your posts. You can't have it both ways.
That's why the smart people stay anonymous.
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That's about the most twisted logic ive ever seen.
I still have more respect for Zach than I do for any anonymous blogger.
Who knows, maybe the editor is even anonymous to build his ratings up.
Fred G Sanford period.
we also need to make sure they have the very best tools, God forbid some terrorist comses and tries to take our treasure.
If they do come who do you think will be deffened first, I bet they will run to their on homes first and think about others second. Remember how bad the exersise went out the junior high school they had total lack of communication,radio not working and not for sure who was in charge. Terroist are like theives in the night you just don't know when they will come or where, thats why you must be ready to deffend yourself, remember ACPD shows up after the harm is done Like the robberies
If the fines for AWNR (accident while being a non-resident) are truly to re-imburse the taxpayers, then the money goes back to the city general fund instead of being kept by the police department. We might want to have accounting look into it.
Hey that muight be enough to take care of unpaid water bills or do away with the $50-$50 deal
I am full of myself because I fight to bring change. I deffend myself when others try to bring me down. I am a man because I love my community and acctually put forth an effort to show it. I sign my name because I feel if this village idiot can make a difference then so to should all the great and respectable people of this blog. As one of you said if you would just stay away from the personal attacks then I would just debate the topic at hand and as I've said in the past feel free to mail your personal attacks to my store 102 S. Summit, e-mail them to me liberecland@gmail.com, or click the little picture of me and slam me on my own blog. I'm sorry your daddys didn't love you enough so you feel you need to take that out on me with personal agendas and vendettas, if you stop then I won't feel the need to retort. Fair enough? I even appologized to the people attacking me which brings me to think that you are truelly sad individuals. I'll pray for you.
What are you apologizing for Zach? You don't need to defend yourself to anyone on here about your ideas or who you are. Only one or two are just trying to keep you riled up, big bet that it is the same people that are taking digs at you. let em go! Who cares!
It seems dubious that Zach's last post, and the post before it, both spelled defend with two D's.
Maybe Zach is discussing with himself?
Zach, just post what you think on the topics. I have not attacked you, and I will not, as long as you stay on topic, and quit going on and on about yourself.. No one cares. I hope your business does well, and you live long and prosper. So quit whining about people being mean to you. Shake it off and go on.
And keep the discussion to the issues, not to how great you are for putting your name on here, which I agree, is not very smart. Sorry to say it, but you have probably lost business by speaking out about your lifestyle, and especially when you were talking about taking your son to see death metal bands.
Just challenging others to put their money where their mouth is and actually do something to improve the community. Gripe on here all you like but then roll the office chair out from under yourself and make change to the world. A challenge I feel that should be issued on all blogs. (My opinion)
I don't see it as a crash tax. I see it as a big sign at the city limits reading, "outsiders stay out, we do not like your kind here!"
See, the funny thing about it, IF you can find humor in bad judgement.
Just a short while back, a young lady had an accident. The police report revealed that she was at fault. Her insurance company accepted the police report. Then after much stress and strain, and actually pushing the courts to review her case, it seems that she was not at fault. So.... we pay 600 dollars for a 'bad report'. I'm just saying, in town or out of state' people. It's not a good thing for a bad report to be shoved around for a lil cash for the city.
Eventually, we all shall pay, cause Car Insurance is a trip anyhows.
People be careful. (who knows what happens when it's the fault of one of our 'blue and tan' fellows or lady) I've almost been hit by one or two cutting a corner short. Sometimes ya'll are just it 'too much of a rush'
Think about it......
We will all end up paying for this in the end..Rates will go up and this is just another attempt by this city to nickel and dime us to death...Traffic accidents are "Police" work and this so called charge is ridiculus...Shaun wants a Police dog and a Swat team...We are a town of a little over 11,000 residents of which 6000 something are taxpaying adults....Shaun, your officers have time to handle traffic accidents.....This whole thing sounds like a scam and the city counsel bought into it...
Re: Feb 2, 9:29
Zack, My daddy loved me very much. He was killed by a drunk driver when I was 6. You are an insensitive pr*ck for making such a thoughtless reference.
Let's all do this:
(And tell your friends)
If we are ever in an accident with someone from out of town and it is their fault, be sure to tell them about the bill they will be receiving, and that our Chief of Police said it did not have to be paid. Tell them that they will not be turned over for collection, and their credit will not be affected, and no warrant will be issued. Tell them "Just don't pay it!"
"Truly" as "truelly" has got to go in the hall of fame!! Wow...
Feb. 2 9:29 Second from last line...
We're not in spelling class,
Z. Harris said...
"Truly" as "truelly" has got to go in the hall of fame!! Wow...
Feb. 2 9:29 Second from last line..."
jamie said...
"We're not in spelling class,"
While it is true that everyone has a few type O's from time to time, if we started keeping track of Zach's fumbling of the English language, these posts would all be 100 comments or more. We all know he can't spell.
At first, by commenting on it, I had hoped he would at least try a little harder, but now I think he enjoys being thought of as a bed speller, a skater, a degenerate, a rebel if you will.
Might I at least suggest a link to a dictionary on your favorites menu.
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