question on another post.
anyone want to talk about this ?
Question: have you ever had family or friends with a substance abuse problem?
You would have to include tobacco and alcohol here i would think ?
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A blog by Managing Editor James Jordan about the newspaper. So far it's mostly about city commission, but I hope to delve into other local issues.
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69 comments:
Yes. And it's much harder to stop than most of you people think.
Throw them under a bus? Not if it's your children or your family member.
I value people, I value my community, but I wish there was a simple answer. (I don't think there is though)
Love them.... Be tough.... and pray and cry...
I don't like the nasty answers people give. I used to laugh when it was someone else, but since it came close to home... the laughter is gone. It has been replaced with pain, sorrow, and many tears.
I would like to see the people in places of authority, live as they though they knew they were being watched by those who they turn their noses at. Our city authority does a lot of drinking...do they get the same treatment as the ones we want to throw behind bars. I've heard, while sitting in court, people in authority talk about how they barely made it home...
I wish there was no drugs, no alcohol...but, alas, there is... I am saddened by the whole thing.
People need help, instead of talking them down, let's find some help for them.
Yes, I do know several people with drug and/or alcohol problems and thats why I see red when people start to knock em down or those that don't know or never been close to an addict pretend to know the answers. Some of them start with doing a little here and there while kicking it with their friends and pretty soon they have afull blown problem, others went to a doctor(s) that writes numerous scripts for narcotics, barbituates, etc. Some people have a mental illness and find they can't afford a $120 psychologist, plus the cost of some of the medicines so they take a pill, get high, drink, whatever helps. If someone doesn't want help though, you'll never be able to force them to seek treatment. I don't think they should be excused for that kind of behavior, but each individual is unique and you would have to get to the root of the why they use.
Mr. margolius, since you are on this blog from time to time, could you please ask your wife why she feels cutting people off welfare would help? Some of us, or at least I would, would like to know her train of thought on this bill.
I think Ms Kelly is not as much for the people as she would like some to believe. About 5 years ago I wrote to her and two others in regard to programs they may be able to recomend for older workers who have been displaced. She totally blew me off, just like her associate did. The ONLY one that I recived a letter from was Governer Kathleen Sebilus. She wrote me a wonderful letter in regard to my questions and because of that I have alot of respect for her. MS Kelly lost that respect when she blew me off. Maybe she thought I was one of those lowly people on unemployment that needed to be tested for drugs? Therefore she ignored me.
I think that anyone who does drugs is simply a weak person who wants to escape their life by getting high. People who try drugs to fit in with others are weak fools, and needs to stop being sheep and tell their friends NO. Anyone who can't kick a perscription drug after being on it awhile is a weak person. Morals are what these people need, not sympathy and prayer.
They can't afford a phsychiatrist, so they spend more money on drugs? Pleeze.
Maybe they should go to the casino instead.
I used to work at a bar in Dallas and became acquainted with this homeless woman named Becky.
Becky was around 5'8", couldn't of weighed more then 90 pounds, no teeth, hollow eyes and barely any hair. Dirty clothes hung off her bones. Becky said she was in her thirties but she looked sixty. She was extremely sweet but most definitely an addict and probably a prostitute.
Becky would walk up and down in front of the bar begging for money from the patrons sitting on the bar patios. A lot of bar regulars knew her so she made a bit of money, not a lot but enough for a hot dog at the 7-11. Management would shoo her away because well, nothing kills a buzz like a human being wasting away from addiction in front of you.
On the days management sent her away I would sneak her breads, water and sometimes a pop from the restaurant next door. If I didnt eat all of my dinner I would box it up and save it for her. If she asked for a pop I would bring her water. A part of me hated Becky as much as a part of me felt obligated to her. I feel awful admitting that but it is the truth. I could not NOT help her though, even if it was scraps.
One time Becky showed up with a puppy. Sometimes homeless people steal puppies so they can use the animal as leverage when begging for money. For some reason, people will give a homeless person more money when a puppy is involved. Becky really seemed to love this dog but I was pissed when she showed up with it. I thought she loved the dog but I assumed it was for the wrong reasons.
I did something I wish now I hadn't done. I offered Becky $40 for the puppy and she told me no. I told Becky to take the money and give me the dog or I would not give her anymore handouts. She told me she had to think about it. I was outraged. I thought she was greedy and should be thankful I was willing to handover my hard earned money so she could go buy her stupid drugs. A few hours later, Becky showed up with the puppy and handed it over crying harder then a person should have to in public. I was annoyed.
I gave the puppy to a coworker. Every time Becky came around she asked about the puppy. She would tell me the same story of how happy she felt the first time she bought it food and a chew toy. She wanted updates so frequently that we ended up giving her photographs of the puppy as it grew. Becky in the end actually loved that puppy for all the right reasons.
I made assumptions about Becky because of her position, because of who she was. I will always feel like I stole a bit of her dignity and her joy. I used her addiction against her because I knew she would fail. I don't know if this story will mean anything to anyone else but me but it was a life lesson I will never forget.
They can't afford a phsychiatrist, so they spend more money on drugs? Pleeze.
------------------------
Some prescriptions cost more than a months worth of a bag a weed that would last a month. Some people don't have family that helps, some people don't have insurance. Maybe you need to research it a little more before you pass judgement.
You did the right thing bytedaily, you're only human.
my kids' dad is an alcoholic. he's had numerous DUIs but always seems to skirt away from serious punishment. I don't understand the illness. It seems to me that it would be a choice. To drink or not to drink. To have a life or not. To watch your kids grow up or to wake up one day and wish you'd been sober for the past 18 years. He needs serious help.
Byte Daily,
Why didn't you just give her back the dog after a couple of days since you could obviously tell she wasn't using it for sympathy and really loved it?
She might have ate the dog on a cold hungry night on the street.
Again, KK does not care about the poor, and DOES live in an ivory tower. I went to school with her, and the other poster who claims to have must have been in her clique. She has been overheard by many people speaking ill of those whose lawyer daddies didn't buy them new Camaros. To argue the contrary is a dead giveaway that you either are covering for her or are clueless.
To argue the contrary is a dead giveaway that you either are covering for her or are clueless.
>>>
Youre so wise.
If anyone doesn't agree with you they are just an idiot.
I understand honey.
Anonymous said...
She might have ate the dog on a cold hungry night on the street.
March 21, 2009 10:37 PM
That sounds so STUPID. You need to smoke something yourself. STUPID STUPID AND MORE STUPID
The thing I think that is most missed by the governing body of Kansas and most elected officials ly the effect this would have on those who's families try to help break this bad habit or dis-ease. I know no one wants to see government putting hard tax dollars out for waste, but waht they should also think and know is that someones family member is counting on the tax they pay to help yhem help a loved member of their family be it parent or kids.
For whom dors the bell ring? those that are the least of us! That it why this country is to be seen so great because we always try to lift up those in NEED!!!!!
I thought this was supposed to be a serious post.
I know how easy it is to get addicted to anything.
Sometimes our 1st choice, ends up being our life...1 puff, 1 drink,etc...
Sarcasm has no place in this particular blog.
Let him or her without sin cast the first stone.
I think you have to look at modern day society and how we have chosen to handle behaviors.
We choose to give young children
Ritalin(?) to calm them down. Its easier than modifiying their diet (sugar intake)or providing other constructive methods to let
them use their boundless energy.
We start them out as addicts then wonder what went wrong!
Then there is the issue of changes in chemistry that take place with the use of drugs. I believe the professionals know far more about the physical and chemical characteristics of drug use than the average person.
Drugs have become a way of life and a first choice for many to deal with "Life".
we know the only thing that doesn't work is "punishment".
it cures nothing.
the anwser is Mandaorty abortion for those who cannot support thier own and sterilization for those who abuse the system.
this is the only cure and anwser
as for the Random drug testing, that is nothing more than by partizan brain storming on a way to create more revenue for state governments
98% of wealfare recipaints are in fact useing substances we might consider unapropriate, why should we judge others, did we judge the Indians?? we stole thier land fair and square then gave them back prime grass and prairie, now there makeing much dollarinos tax free
Are we judgeing the drug abuseing Prostitues around the world in third world contries that we support with food and aid??
where do we stop and where do we start
this is Socialisim and you voted for it with Obama
this is Socialisim and you voted for it with Obama.
It brings up the question. Which is worse for Ark City:
stoners or stupidity?
the anwser is Mandaorty abortion for those who cannot support thier own and sterilization for those who abuse the system.
-------------------------
Sounds like dictatorship to me.
Stoners can rehabilitate, but stupid is forever.
We choose to give young children
Ritalin(?) to calm them down. Its easier than modifiying their diet (sugar intake)or providing other constructive methods to let
them use their boundless energy.
---------------------------------
Really, is that what you think? Have you had experience with this kind of thing? Granted, I admit that too many people jump on the ritalin bandwagon before they tried the alternatives, but I tried everything that i could think of with my daughter. Only until she received medication was she able to learn. Watch a kid with true add or adhd and the only thing they are able ato focus on is computers, tv and video games because it stimulates the brain. I had my daughter do what practice and homework she could on the computer and she learned way better then sitting down with a piece of paper in front of her.
Another thing. A properly treated child has a less risk of substance abuse.
You're being glib.
@March 21, 2009 7:38 PM
Byte:
Thank you for being so candid. I enjoyed reading.
On another note, you & I disagree a lot on here, but, we see you and I are really not all that much different. We'll probably disagree on something else later, but, know this, I respect you for what you wrote. Thank You.
Wow! Tom Cruise! A real homosexual posting on a blog in AC!
This bill only tangentially addresses helping people get off of drugs. I think we all agree that NO legislation no matter how well written is going to cure a person's addiction.
I think the intent here if I understand correctly, (having talked to the author about it) is to curb governmental enabling of addiction through putting a reasonable additional qualification on the availability of some public assistance dollars.
BTW as a former drug user and alcoholic I appreciate any reasonable approach that helps people get off of drugs or limits access.
We know who you are, and we are unleashing the dogs of war. You will be sorry that you fooled with Mr. Cruise's good name.
MMMWwwAAHAHAHAHAHAHA
She has been overheard by many people speaking ill of those whose lawyer daddies didn't buy them new Camaros.
I thought it was a Corvette???
Anyway, Kasha was blessed with good fortune in her life. She could have done many things with her life for selfish reasons. Putting herself out there in the political world was not necessary for her financial success.
As for liberals? I think you tend to be enablers. Sorry, but that's how I see it. I have drug addicts in the family who were given money time and time again from family members. It was not until the money was cut off that they had to "get straight".
I guarantee you she'd be making a LOT more money if she and her husband spent their extra time on their business instead of in politics. This stuff is a sacrifice not a personal benefit.
I think the whole welfare system could be overhauled. I know a family who had some hardships and needed public assistance and got very little-to the point it was inhumane. Then I have been behind people in checkout's who would use their food stamp cards for food and then walk over to customer service, pull out a huge amount of cash and buy lottery tickets. I also know there are some people who are on assistance that are living it up at the casino's.
I hope Kasha squashes the gambling too.
By the way, Byte, that was a good read!
There aren't enough votes to squash gambling.
So you think people on assistance should be able to gamble with money they are getting from somewhere and use taxpayer money for food and rent?
Kasha does work hard.
I know that.
She called me at 11 p.m. last night while working at her desk at home.
She was getting ready for today's session.
She may have had some advantages growing up, but she is successful today because she works hard.
"I went to school with her, and the other poster who claims to have must have been in her clique."
No, I wasn't in her clique at all.
--------------------------
I apologise to any one that thinks I was sounding "glib" to them. Only offering what I know and researched.
--------------------------------
@anonymous March 22, 2009 6:55 PM
Congratulations on your recovery.
Watch a kid with true add or adhd and the only thing they are able ato focus on is computers, tv and video games because it stimulates the brain.
...........................
Doesn't that make you wonder about the effect of those items and the way the youngsters brains are developing.
If you look at the elderly in many cases, especially those who are no longer fully active and are restricted or have less interaction with others. They tend to watch alot of TV. It has a hypnotic effect on them as well.
I wonder if watching hours upon hours of TV from an early age. With all its animation and special effects stimulates the non creative parts of the brain. Thus making it harder for them to focus their attention and learn.
Call it what you want - they have limited the Physical Education in schools and parents simply don't have or take the time to spend with their kids. TV and computers are the new babbysitters!
Agreed, too much tv rots the brain. An interesting fact that the counselor told me is that in an adhd person there is not enough activity in the brain. I had it figured too much activity!
question on another post.
anyone want to talk about this ?
"Question: have you ever had family or friends with a substance abuse problem?
You would have to include tobacco and alcohol here i would think ?
posted by Traveler Editor at 2:54 PM on Mar 21, 2009"
Mr. Editor,
Thanks for taking on such a difficult subject. I think most people have been touched by this in one way or another. Judging from the responses, most don't want to talk about it. Why? Not sure, but, I surmise the reason may be because it hurts, it's embarassing, or just easier to talk about something else. The very 1st poster said it best:
@March 21, 2009 3:29 PM
I am shocked at the utter heartlessness of some of the posters here on this issue. (Hope they never have a problem or have a kid or brother, etc. with a problem) Yes, I think you do have to include alcohol & tobacco. They are gateways that usually start in adolescence. (ever notice not many old people start smoking, hmmm)
I used to have a problem with alcohol, tobacco, & drugs. However, at this stage of my life, by the help of God, I no longer partake of these substances.
But, I have a brother that was not so fortunate. He's been in more treatment centers than I care to remember. Always up, down, in & out. Relapse after relapse. I know he wants better, but, for whatever reason can't maintain his sobriety. (once I remember he stayed sober 4 years) If you listen to some of the posters here, I should just throw him under the bus or just tell him to "exercise some willpower" or tough love, etc. (I don't give him money, btw)
People just don't want to discuss it. Even anonymously.
Do you remember a year or so ago, when the young man in A.C. died after ingesting drugs attempting to hide it from the police? Well, after that his dad wrote a heart-wrenching editorial telling of their battle with their son's addiction and how they lost that battle. I read the dad's letter and I wept too. Why? Because I understand. His battle is my battle. What our loved ones do affects us directly.
Should I just give up on my brother? .....I think I will stand beside him & fight with him. Even until...
D.Q.
Thanks Jamie, Don Quixote and 10:14!
@ 10:36
I made a judgment call and at the time I thought what I was doing was right. The puppy was stolen by a homeless drug addict. I thought it would be better cared for by it's owner and failing that, my coworker.
@ Don Quixote - I admire your attitude towards your brother and hope you will continue to fight for his recovery. Thank you for sharing.
---
I don't think I have a good understanding of how the cash assistance programs work. The participants of the following programs will be tested: Temporary Assistance for Families (employment assistance), General Assistance (disabled assistance), Child Care Assistance (daycare assistance) and
Grandparents as Caregivers Assistance.
In an attempt to understand each of these programs it seems like each is specific in goal but could also be intertwined with other programs. I may be reading this wrong but a person failing a drug test and not completing education/treatment programs would be ineligible for the specific cash assistance programs but would still receive public assistance (i.e. food stamps, medical treatment)? Am I understanding this right?
Also HB 2275 states that: The costs of the drug screening,
evaluation and treatment under this program shall be paid from moneys
derived from asset seizure and forfeiture under K.S.A. 60-4117, and
amendments thereto, and any federal moneys which may be available for
such purpose.
ut a person failing a drug test and not completing education/treatment programs would be ineligible for the specific cash assistance programs but would still receive public assistance (i.e. food stamps, medical treatment)? Am I understanding this right?
>>>
Yes,
Federal law prohibits them from denying food stamps and medical care.
it would only apply to cash benefits
im not sure how the cash thing works. ... but its some kind of assistance.
man in A.C. died after ingesting drugs attempting to hide it from the police
Who was this? I know my neighbor tried this feat and ended up in the hospital.
jamie said...
Mr. margolius, since you are on this blog from time to time, could you please ask your wife why she feels cutting people off welfare would help? Some of us, or at least I would, would like to know her train of thought on this bill.
March 21, 2009 3:58 PM
are you kidding you are confused lady , be responsible for youo own actions , thats like saying braums made you fat , No not being active made you fat ,
if i fail a drug test i lose my source of income , where is the difference ?
having a drug problem does not make you special , different , or unique , we all have demons , and we all make choices , good or bad , if you want to feed your kids off of welfare dont fail a drug test , thats simple , i want to keep my job so i dont fail any drug test WOW what a novel idea
jamie said...
They can't afford a phsychiatrist, so they spend more money on drugs? Pleeze.
------------------------
Some prescriptions cost more than a months worth of a bag a weed that would last a month. Some people don't have family that helps, some people don't have insurance. Maybe you need to research it a little more before you pass judgement.
March 21, 2009 8:10 PM
maybe you do if you can afford a months worth of weed you should buy your meds instead , if you are using for the purpose of medication you are spending more than 200 per month on weed ,you can buy your meds for that i am sure , so you should do your research
KK cares about you as much as you care about her NOW WHAT
Don Q. wrote
People just don't want to discuss it. Even anonymously.
Do you remember a year or so ago, when the young man in A.C. died after ingesting drugs attempting to hide it from the police? Well, after that his dad wrote a heart-wrenching editorial telling of their battle with their son's addiction and how they lost that battle. I read the dad's letter and I wept too. Why? Because I understand. His battle is my battle. What our loved ones do affects us directly.
Should I just give up on my brother? .....I think I will stand beside him & fight with him. Even until...
D.Q.
March 23, 2009 10:28 AM
And the taxpayers paid too. Family sued the City and County, because they didn't know and failed to baby sit him. Suite settled out of Court, as I recall to the tune of $95,000. [Should be in a Traveler story somewhere]. But then doesn't the taxpayer always pay? Spare me your bleeding hearts.
@ anonymous March 23, 2009 2:10 PM
Strange how much you know, my friends medicine without insurance would cost close to $300 and thats the lower end doses. Not everyone has that big I word to cover them. So yeah, i think I know my research.
you dont know squat , you spout 2nd hand info , like my friends meds cost 300 , i doubt what you are saying , you said buying pot was cheaper than the meds , how so if it cost your friend there welfare check
It seems that random drug testing of welfare recipients might be a violation of constitutional rights, i.e. unreasonable search/seizure and privacy rights. See Marchwinski v. Howard.
@ anonymous March 23, 2009 4:43 PM
I'm not wasting any more words on you. Get over yourself.
If it's not constitutional for those who receive welfare, then why is it fair for those who are employed and drawing a paycheck?
Why don't we all just admit to the fact that we WANT to support drug addicts because you feel sorry for them. Like I said before, bleeding heart liberals are enablers.
Another thing we may as well admit, a lot of people smoke weed or use some form of drugs and do not have a problem with them. It's only a matter of time before they are legalized. Heck, it's practically a requirement for President of the US now to have used drugs in some form. People vote for them because they find drug usage acceptable (at least past usage) and feel they can relate to the men because they either are users or have tried it themselves. I think this country's morals and standards have sunk.
"man in A.C. died after ingesting drugs attempting to hide it from the police."
Darwin was right. Natural selection at it's finest. One less druggie.
What happened before we had welfare?
Why do we expect the gov. to solve our problems and finance the solutions?
Is welfare even constitutional??
Why do we expect the gov. to solve our problems and finance the solutions?
>>>
Constitution says
We the people, BY the people and FOR the people.
Government should be solving problems. That is why there is government, to solve problems.
Id rather give some druggie a few of my tax dollars than give a MILLION DOLLARS to a corporate executive who is a blatant criminal living in luxury.
To me its just a matter of fairness.
The government gives MILLIONS, BILLIONS even, to rich companies who have gotten us in this mess to start with.
No drug tests for them. ?
They should be in jail, but are getting bailed out with our money.
Then they want to pick on some guy who has no money and already has drug problems ...
how can that be right?
As the bible says
"These people strain at a gnat and swallow a camel."
It is discrimination to test poor people, and then not test rich people, when both are getting free money from the government.
Is welfare even constitutional??
I'm embarrassed for the most of this post. I thought, that we were seriously trying to discuss the 'quiet, and unspoken' issue.
For all those who have the 'kick em in the teeth, or throw them under the bus' attitude, I am so glad you're not the ONE who I must answer to. The JUDGE, I know and refer to, has the last word. And HIS Word, tells me to have mercy and to show mercy.
Good luck to the rest of you earthly judges. (some in black robes, others in their 'superior attitude'. Good luck. You're gonna need it.
Before there was governmental welfare, we had communities. Neighbors helping neighbors. Even during the early years after FDR's New Deal, neighbors helping neighbors: communities bonding together in hard times was the norm. The New Deal programs were initiated to help create jobs so men could support our families again. Somewhere along the line the concept got twisted and warped into this gigantic Governmental Social Welfare monster we have today.
Our Founding Fathers were all about neighbors helping neighbors in hard times. I believe they would be appalled by the Social Welfare behemoth we have today.
I agree that our national government should be involved with solving problems, but if you review the past 50 years, it seems to me that the massive govenment handouts are creating a bigger problem not a solution.
@March 24, 2009 1:06 PM
Good point. It has created a generation of people who cannot care for themselves. And many who have plenty do not see the need to help fellow man and in many cases do not see the need to help family.
I fear that as the world economy continues to deteriorate, the fact that we have not fostered family and community relationships will be our undoing. Many will suffer.
D.Q.
@March 23, 2009 10:04 PM
C'mon. It was a child, for crying out loud. Bet if it was your child or relative you might have a different take. Ahh, the way you are, probably not. You are a real piece of work. I regret I even mentioned it.
Don't bother me with any more comments. I'm done talking.
D.Q.
I thought the purpose of welfare to the poor was to help them get back on their feet. If they are abusing drugs while receiving welfare dollars, how are we helping them? If they are to get a good paying job which will support their families without welfare dollars, they will have to pass a drug test to get hired.
Why is rehabilitating them not the solution? Isn't that getting to the root of the problem and getting them back to work?
one of yhe biggest problems we have today is that most business will not allow someone who has been tested or arrested for any type of drug related incedent to work foe them to change their life. I for onr told my employer what I had done and what I was trying to do, change my life and they bave me ths chance and it worked 20 years ago. Now fast forward to the year 2009 bd because of insurance and drug phobea you can not get most employers to give an addict a chance ib hell or Ark City.
You will be judgr the same as you judge others.
Thats where we lacj here in Ark City as neighbors, give them a chance to work and feelbetter about themselves and they will have a better chanceof kicking the bad habit.
Or we can continue to use Slave Labor from the Pre release center and not help yhose folks occupy time doing good and becoming more cofigent about beybg able to cope wiyh life wiyhout drugs.
It has been proven in several states over the ladt several years by putting to work and in those states they even had people move to those states to worj to get away from drugs and the welfare sytems and they said on national TV ot worked and their self esteem went up and some even started their own business to help others do the same. But whoa to those in Ark City they don't stand a chance because we don't know how to help only critizize
N.N.T.R.
Why is rehabilitating them not the solution? Isn't that getting to the root of the problem and getting them back to work?>>>.
..
I agree with that, but it does assume that most people on welfare are druggies.
People who have studied and are supposed to know, say its around 7 percent.
That is not higher than estimates among the general population.
There is still that stigma.
Do you all think its possible that some people on welfare really need help?
Why do people assume that just because someone is on welfare, they must be on drugs?
Here is another point that bothers me. If someone has a six pack of beer over the weekend no one cares. I just dont see that as different than smoking a little pot over the weekend.
I know one is legal and one is not, but i am thinking more about what is right and wrong.
Alcohol is a much stronger and more dangerous drug than marijuana.
Funny, I never met a pot smoker who just smoked on the weekends.
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