Here is a case that has similarities to ours.
Click on the title for the whole story.
WALLA WALLA, Wash. – Cal Coburn Brown surprised investigators with his reply to this routine question at the end of a lengthy police interview: Anything else you want to tell us?
Brown — arrested in Palm Springs, Calif. for an attack on a woman at a hotel — answered with explicit details about how he had tortured and murdered a 22-year-old woman in the Seattle suburbs just days earlier. Her body was found in the trunk of her car.
Brown, 50, is scheduled to die for that murder on Friday, and would become the first person executed in Washington since 2001.
Prosecutors point to the case as one befitting the death penalty, while opponents argue for leniency because of his mental condition.
"I've been in the prosecutor's office for 25 years, and I've seen a lot of shocking things. But looking at Cal Brown's sadistic torture spree, really it is about the worst case I've ever seen," said King County Prosecutor Dan Satterberg.
According to court documents, Brown suffers from bipolar disorder, but was not being treated at the time of the murder. Since 1994, prison staff have prescribed medication to control the condition.
Monday, March 9, 2009
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24 comments:
I read an article a few months back about criminal behaviour and mental health. The research was showing that a large majority of the population with mental health issues are capable of knowing it is not okay to kill(unless it is the most severe of mental health illnesses). I know several people with bipolar disorder and other mental health issues far greater than what Justin Thurber is said to have and they don't feel the need to go out and kill someone. If his problems were thought to be severe enough, then the mental health facility would not of declared him competent.
Society has made up so many mental problems that any one of us could be found to need medication. Letting murderers hide behind "not being right in the head" is sad to me. If they kill for no reason then they are obviously not right in the head. Next we are going to allow the "devil made me do it" deffense.
You're right Zach, too many subcatagories are coming into play. Just like the three types of bipolar and a milder form of bipolar(sure there is more subcatagories by now). All types of personality disorders out there too. There are some trully ill people out there and Justin Thurber is not one of them. The only illness that comes to mind that would only begin to be excusable in my book is true schizophrenia.
Kake in wichita had an interesting story on Sunday night on Ms. Sanderholm's boyfriend, a young man with the last name of Wilson. It was a very well done and interesting story and he really has a good head on his shoulders. It is up on the Kake website if you missed it and are interested.
March 9, 2009 8:37 AM, Zach said,
If they kill for no reason then they are obviously not right in the head.
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My argument exactly.
He is "obviously not right in the head."
What purpose does killing him serve other than vengence?
Is this how a civil society acts?
YEP.
Hopefully you never have to know the pain of losing a loved one to violent crime. If you ever do, THEN we will see if you still feel like coddling the criminal scum who did it.
You kill you die. I think it sets a good standard. Is the civil society supposed to feed and protect him for the rest of his days? His victim swam and played with my son so I may be a bit biased here but Thurber has been a piece of trash his entire life. Hopefully his death will tell others what happens if you act this way in our society. I have no compassion for a person like that. If you hurt the innocent then you have become a waste of the air that the rest of us breath. I say put him in gen pop at the prison and maybe we won't have to worry about an appeal.
I have a hard time with deciding if I am for or against the death penalty. It's understandable that Zach is angry, as we all are about this awful killing. One question Zach. What if the killer was a close family member of yours, would you feel the same about an eye for an eye?
Hard for me to picture a close family member of mine doing anything like this. We were brought up right. But let's say for a moment that it was then yes I would feel the same way. I got in trouble myself quite a while back and even though my lawyer said he knew he had a very good chance of getting me off I went in and pled guilty for I had commited the crime. This is how I was raised that you man up and take the punishment. Honestly I would hope that Thurber would want to die for his crimes. That would be a sign of truelly feeling wrong in doing it. Instead I imagine he will continually appeal causing the pain to continue.
K, thanks Zach, I was only trying to play devils advocate here. I was considering throwing out a few more issues here, but I really don't want to tick anybody off.
I'm not mad Jamie. It is a touchy topic to debate though.
Hopefully you never have to know the pain of losing a loved one to violent crime. If you ever do, THEN we will see if you still feel like coddling the criminal scum who did it.
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Actually, I was the poster you are refering to; and yes I did loose a sister who was brutally murdered on March 7th, of 2007.
http://www3.ctcentral.com/nhr/hardy/index.html
http://nhregister.com/articles/2009/03/01/news/doc49aa0fea26754349317154.txt
http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2009/03/01/news/shoreline/a1hardy1.txt
She left behind 3 wonderfull kids, and a family who misses her very much. You cannot imagine my mother and fathers grief. Her killers have not been caught. However, when they are, they need to be punished. Life in prison will do that.
What does more killing accomplish?
Sorry, I lost my sister in 2006, not 2007.
The links I provided are dead, my sisters story can be viewed here.
http://www3.ctcentral.com/nhr/hardy/index.html
Well, it is your right to feel however you need to feel, or believe whatever you need to believe, to cope with your loss. If that means forgiving the scumbag piece of crap, or singing Kumbyya with them, or whatever, then that is your right.
BUT, don't sit there and act like you are better than someone for choosing a different way to cope. Don't begrudge others the same right just because they choose a different way than you.
If that means forgiving the scumbag piece of crap, or singing Kumbyya with them, or whatever, then that is your right.
BUT, don't sit there and act like you are better than someone for choosing a different way to cope. Don't begrudge others the same right just because they choose a different way than you.
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I don't think I ever said I want to sing Kumbaya with my sisters killers, I'm not sure forgiveness is possible. They haven't asked for it, and it is not really mine to give. That is between them and their God.
Finally, when did I ever give the impression that I was better than anyone? I have my opinions. naturally, I think mine are right, but I understand some peoples need for vengence. If thats your motivation, say so. I may not agree, but I can understand and respect that.
Do not argue that it is a deterent, cause it is not. Do not argue that it saves money, cause it does not. Do not argue that it will protect society, locking someone up for life without the possibility of parole does that.
I believe that the death penalty just perpetuates the cycle of death and violence. Does not allow for redemption or restitution, and does not allow for mistakes. Certainly there has been more than one inocent person executed for crimes they did not commit.
We are the only civilized country in the world that still has a death penalty.
In 2007 the largest number of verifiable executions were carried out in the six countries listed below (with the exception of the US, the figures are believed to be under-estimates):
China 470+ (other sources est. 5,000)
Iran 317+
Saudi Arabia 143+
Pakistan 135+
USA 42
Iraq 33+
AND
Executions are known to have been carried out in the following countries in 2007:
Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Belarus, Botswana, China, Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Japan, Kuwait, Libya, North Korea, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, USA, Vietnam, Yemen.
So, you are calling all those countries uncivilized?
Frankly, my only reason for wanting killers to be killed IS vengeance. Plain and simple. You talk of the death penalty not being a deterrent, and I say that is because of the coddling that goes on prior to the sentence being carried out. If the appeals process was shorter, and the sentence could be carried out within a year of the guilty verdict in cases where there is zero doubt as to the person's guilt (like Thurber's), then that would be a deterrent. But, because of the liberal coddling these people get, and all the whiny liberals who write to them in jail and talk about how they forgive them, etc, it is not a deterrent.
I for one, think that one single day of Thurber being able to lay in his bunk and fantasize about the things he did is one day too many.
China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan,Iraq, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Belarus, Botswana, China, Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Japan, Kuwait, Libya, North Korea, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Vietnam, Yemen...
Do you really want to compare the human rights records of these countries to the United States?
Most of those countries also jail political dissidents, do you think we should start doing that as well?
In 2007 the largest number of verifiable executions were carried out in the six countries listed below (with the exception of the US, the figures are believed to be under-estimates):
China 470+ (other sources est. 5,000)
Iran 317+
Saudi Arabia 143+
Pakistan 135+
USA 42
Iraq 33+
AND
Executions are known to have been carried out in the following countries in 2007:
Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Belarus, Botswana, China, Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Japan, Kuwait, Libya, North Korea, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, USA, Vietnam, Yemen.
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Not exactly a list I am proud to be on...
I for one, think that one single day of Thurber being able to lay in his bunk and fantasize about the things he did is one day too many.
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AMEN TO THAT
Not exactly a list I am proud to be on...
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You're not proud to be an American? You should hang out with Michelle Obama.
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