I had a long talk with Mell on Tuesday. Ive looked over the city record's and the mayor's records.
I am working on a story that should be out on Friday. Maybe Saturday.
I want to do some comparisons to other cities.
One thing about Kuhn is, he doesn't care all that much what people think.
That might be a good thing. Too many people are afraid to speak up because they fear what people will think of them. Right or wrong, Mell is Mell.
During our talk he said. "If the job gets done on time, under budget and according to specs, why should anyone care who did it."
He showed me some of the bids he has done in other cities. They look just like the ones he has done in Arkansas City. He currently has six other jobs going on in six other cities on sewer and water plants.
The jobs he is doing for Arkansas City seem to be on the level. Even city officials - could be commissioners or employees - who are not fans of Mell say that.
He has not been part of making decisions about who gets jobs with the city when he bids on projects. There have been some bids that he did not win.
One point too, is that we don't hear of other contractors, competitors, complaining about the process.
He makes no secret of his preference for the hospital project. He says his company "doesn't do hospitals." He said his company would not be bidding on any significant work on the hospital.
Some minor job perhaps, but probably not, he said.
So thats his response in a nutshell. There will be much more in the story.
I have all the bids for all the jobs he has bid on in recent years.
I am remaining neutral on the Mayor. His jobs with the city do not appear to be illegal. Whether its right or wrong, is not a call I'm going to make. That means both sides accuse me of being on the other side.
But the thing is, he is causing some things to happen. He is stirring things up and disrupting the status quo. Maybe that is a good thing?
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53 comments:
Bring it James. So Mel doesn't really care about what people think. You must be kidding. he seems to senitive. Even a little shy.
As for the contracts and the work he does that is far outside the understanding of most of us. When a professional contractor, starts to explain a process for the work they are doing eyes glaze over and spin slowly because we really dont understand. It is a foreign language.
So bring it into the light James, show us the facts, nothing but the facts. And with glazed over eyes we will follow your words.
You must be kidding. he seems to senitive. Even a little shy.
>>
haha. lol etc.,
yea sensitive and shy, thats Mell.
His not caring what people think is not out of anger.
Hoping for Friday's paper.
I know. I tease him about his inability to express his feelings.
Any time he votes or discusses who is going to be doing the work for the city, or discusses project details, he is in the decision process.
Any time he does any work for the city that hasn't been published and is a sealed competitive bid, then that is outside of the limits.
Even if he wins a bid through this process, and the job then gets a negotiated change order, then that is outside of the permitted process.
Has he, or anyone for that matter, filed their state required SSI form?
Has he ever removed himself from discussions or voting because it is a matter that is a conflict of interest with his business? No? Problem there.
It is not about whether he is "cheating" the city on contracts.
It is about conflict of interest between his position as a Commissioner and a services provider.
It doesn't matter if his contracts "look just like the ones he did in other cities". He wasn't Mayor of the other cities and didn't participate in choosing the specs and contractors in the other cities.
He did in Ark City.
Has he ever removed himself from discussions or voting because it is a matter that is a conflict of interest with his business? No? Problem there.
He has done that several times.
Let's see here.
JJ has stated that as far as he can tell at this time there has been no illegal activities on Mel's behalf regarding the services he provides the city.
What seems to be playing out here is a few of you would rather have the contracts go to out of area contractors.
Those contractors who do not use local labor, buy materials and goods here, and do not care wheather the job is done at a pace and cost which saves the city monies in the long run.
Wake up and support the locals, businesses which provide goods, businesses which provide services, and businesses who provide jobs.
I frankly don't care who on the commission plunges my toilet, as long as they can keep the "john" flowing.
Wake up.
"One point too, is that we don't hear of other contractors, competitors, complaining about the process."
Have you asked? Have you called any of the owners of other local construction companies that compete with Kuhn to see if they have a problem with it?
Hawk said: "I frankly don't care who on the commission plunges my toilet, as long as they can keep the "john" flowing."
Your toilet isn't owned by the City is it? THAT is the concern... a conflict of interest.
JJ, did you do any research for your article other than sitting down with Mell? Did you look up the laws about conflict of interest? Did you call any other cities to see what their policy is on having their mayor do contract bidding for city work? Did you talk to our city attorney? Did you did ANYTHING other than sit down with Mell? I certainly hope so.
Investigative journalism... doesn't that sound fun?!
Did you did ANYTHING other than sit down with Mell? I certainly hope so.
>>>
You'll have to buy the paper and see.
:)
Did you ask why he hadn't done any business with the city in 04,05,06, and then exploded with busines in 07,08 after the election.
that's the 64,000 dollar question that nobody is asking
Did you ask why he hadn't done any business with the city in 04,05,06, and then exploded with busines in 07,08 after the election.
that's the 64,000 dollar question that nobody is asking
you peopel are being ridiculous
Good question about the rise in Kuhns business. Could it possiblly be that maybe the exposure from being on the commission and then mayor boosted some of his business? Until there is solid proof of wrong doing there is no point of accusations. JJ, I look forward to your article.
Ya know sometimes when I read this blog - I would like to move the Oklahoma State Line to say about Skyline Road.
Then we could go all the way back to the days of Cowboys fighting Indians!
Instead of moving forward!
"Could it possiblly be that maybe the exposure from being on the commission and then mayor boosted some of his business?"
Yeah... that is what they are saying. It was his position on the Commission and his position as Mayor that increased his business with the City.
It is called using a political office for personal enrichment.
In Chicago they go to jail.
Your toilet isn't owned by the City is it? THAT is the concern... a conflict of interest.
I think you need to reconsider that.
As a tax payer in this city, Iown a little bit of every city owned "john" in this city.
Again, I don't care who plunges it.
Find something else to whine about.
"The Hawk said...
Your toilet isn't owned by the City is it? THAT is the concern... a conflict of interest.
I think you need to reconsider that.
As a tax payer in this city, Iown a little bit of every city owned "john" in this city.
Again, I don't care who plunges it.
Find something else to whine about."
Don't you have homework to do junior? Grown ups are talking here.
Billings for commission? Walker for Commission? Then lets see how quiet the competitors will be :P
It was his position on the Commission and his position as Mayor that increased his business with the City.
>>>>
From what I can see, it looks like all laws were followed.
The state league of municipalities does not see a problem, and says it happens all the time.
As long as the bid process is followed, and as long as he does not vote, it is not illegal.
Talked with a couple other area cities. It happens there too.
Here are a couple other things.
Since Patrick McDonald got on the commission, his brother's computer business has done a whole lot more business with the city.
When Arleta Rice was on the commission, the city did a lot of business with Zellar Motors. Since then, it has bought more vehicles from Reedy Ford.
"As long as the bid process is followed, and as long as he does not vote, it is not illegal."
He sure didn't abstain from the Lowe's TIF and that was illegal.
Has he filed his SSI?
Has he done jobs outside the published bid process?
So you did "research" by checking with a club? Lightweight.
Check with the real regulatory authority. You will see that there have been numerous legal restrictions put by the State Attorney general on officials doing exactly the same thing Kuhn is doing. It is a matter of public record accessible through kansas.gov.
I remember that nobody thought the blackface skit was wrong either.
(think)
So you did "research" by checking with a club? Lightweight.
>
Thank you for being so open minded.
I have searched all the legal places.
I have the city's audited reports that show exactly how much was paid. I also have the bid reports that show that process as well.
He was paid a little more than the bids, but not much. About $220,000 over the past two years in bids won. The actual payments were only a few thousand more.
So where was the extra work done.
Was he doing it under another name?
Just because I dont get the results you want, doesnt mean im not getting real information.
If you would identify yourself, come see me, we could have a conversation. If there is something I have not seen, I would like to see it.
My name is on everything I do.
Yours is .... anonymous.
soooooooooooo who is the lightweight.
One other point.
I am not addressing right or wrong. Ethical or not ethical.
I am only addressing legal or illegal.
Whether its right or wrong is not a call im going to make. I am trying to objectively report the news, to say right or wrong would compromise that i believe.
The right or wrong up to you to decide.
You know, the point I was trying to make(I think maybe some may have misinterpreted my remark) is that before Kuhn was on the city commission, I had never heard much about his business. Oh, I had seen his vehicles around, but I tend to stick with the businesses I know. Now, I have heard about Kuhn plenty, I might be willing to call him for business. I would think it would be inevitable that Kuhns business will receive more business since he is mayor. Is the other guys complaining? Don't know. If they sincerely think something is wrong, they should do something about it. Or maybe someone is, we don't know. Like I've said before, I will not jump to any conclusions until I has solid proof!
Is the other guys complaining?
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Thats a good point.
So far they are not.
But if any contractor out there feels cheated, or otherwise treated less than fairly, i would love to hear from him or her.
@ Anonymous March 6, 2009 7:48 AM
By all means, do go to James and show(tell) him what you know. It's understandable that you would not want to give you're name out on a blog. Speaking of kicking the ethics word around,if you have proof that there is wrongdoing, isn't it ethical that you do something about it?
Yes definitely contact me.
I need to know who you are. We can discuss anonymity in the paper.
I think I just might straight out ask one myself JJ. Maybe they don't find it the big deal that some people do in this town. As in your examples, did Reedy carry on about Zellers getting more business? Or is the other computer business carrying on about Ralph Mcdonald's computer store receiving more business since his brother is a commissioner? I haven't heard anything about it.
no competitors are raising any objections at all about any of this.
i did call one contractor who did not want to get involved in the fray. they said they had no complaints about arkansas city;
whatever the reason, they didnt want to be quoted.
did you call the attorney general to get their opinion?
You called one contractor, so why not call more of them? Why don't you call some of the ones who have bid on the same jobs and been beaten out by Kuhn because he's the mayor?
OH. MY. GOD.
I was just reading jj's article on Kuhn and came to this paragraph:
"He said the "white elitists" and long-time power structure in the city are upset with him because he has upset the status quo."
Then I had to pick myself off the floor and whipe away the tears from my eyes from laughing so hard. My stomach is going to hurt for a week.
That is rich coming from Smellicious Poon. The NAACP might have brainwashed him during their meeting. haha
"He said the "white elitists" and long-time power structure-
..........
That couldn't be HNB and ACI could it!
BTW: McGrew I hope you don't run the Hospital Board the way you run the Water District Board.
What happens when the city wants to sue Mr. Kuhn for a problem with some of the work his firm did, or for breach of contract, or whatever? just too many problems there...
I think we need to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.
NOw i have heard everything
do intelligent people ask the fox who is killing the chikens
what's a chiken?
its a dumb ars who cant put 2 & 2 together just like you
i will go along with that, if you cant read the writting on the wall because your so wworried about spelling your blind and ignorant and really do not matter
I have used Kuhn to do over $30,000 worth of work. That was over the course of 4 different jobs. Guess what? None of them involved upcharges. One came in below bid.
I hear Kanyon has been sicced on this Kuhn impropriety issue. She is the best investigator the traveler has. If there is something to uncover, she'll find it.
March 6, 2009 6:41 PM
and March 6, 2009 6:45 PM
Lern to taik a jok dUsh.
hukt on fonix werkd fer me!!!!
"I hear Kanyon has been sicced on this Kuhn impropriety issue."
She must be the "White Elite" he was talking about. haha
Kuhn plans to end the next council meeting by putting his fist in the air and saying "BLACK POWER"!
He just kept saying "white elitists." Had he only said it once, i might not have used it.
It is interesting to me that this is what everyone finds interesting. :)
Being indian my dad says many traditional things like the road we are on is ours alone, that many roads will intersec but this road is yours alone. Dad what does that mean!!!! What you learned about your question my dad asked me.
My dad can tell you what's wrong with a car 2000 miles away just listening to the silly sounds that I make to describe it.
My dad can tell you about almost any kind of repair. And if you are getting the picture that I love my dad and am very proud of him you are very right.
Well dad I have looked at the bids posted in the paper and don't understand one sentense all the way through.
My dad is funny and very smart I relayed all the information that I know at this point I told him that he hadn't done business these years. That he did this and so on and so on. What do you think about that I asked him
My dad drew a deep breathe and then said, the indian whose house is in the valley might not know the quiet river is over the hill.
What Does THat MEAN???
My dad who has a real gentle laugh laughed, and with a smile in his voice said. He might not have known how bad your city was being charged/taken until he had his house on the hill.
There you have my dad's opinion of the situation
Don't you have homework to do junior? Grown ups are talking here.
Yes I did my home work grandpa, that's why I made the comment that I did.
If some folks here weren't so myopic, they could see the forrest for the trees.
Some one does something to benefit the city, read tax payer, and all you do is try to tear it down, not look for the good that has been accomplished.
As has been said here before, "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem".
I don't know for sure, but I have probably got the edge on you, Jr.
Hawk,
come back in 20 years when you figure out how the real world works. I like that you want to be involved, but you come across like a pompous ass. You're in over your head.
If I'd known half as much as I thought I did when I was your age, I'd have a nobel prize by now.
@ March 8, 2009 12:19 AM
Excuse us? Who is preachy and pompous?
You must be a member of the Vast White Wing (Elitist) Conspiracy.
I deleted a post, then i deleted my post that explained why i deleted it because what I said made no sense.
Im going to quit while im safely behind.
:)
Please enlighten us. I'm always interested in the reasoning behind your censorship.
Please enlighten us. I'm always interested in the reasoning behind your censorship.
>>
Well i do have a right - responsibility to delete posts that are either obscene or libelous.
and to delete my own when i say something that makes no sense.
problem was, the poster - anonymous - said kuhn was getting secret information from city staff so he could make his bids lower.
That, and the overall post, just seemed silly, so i sacked it.
My response was disjointed and made no sense, so ... i just deleted it too.
It would be hard for staff to give him secret info though.
The bids are all sealed and opened at the same time. Maybe they are in cahoots with the post office?
Yeah, I don't agree that Kuhn is getting to see the bids ahead of time or anything like that, BUT I do think it has the appearance of impropriety, and that he should not be allowed to work for the city while on the commission. I also believe the same about any other commissioners as well. McDonald should not be allowed to sell them vaccuums while on the commission, and so on and so forth. Their relatives however, should still be allowed to do business with the city... they shouldn't be punished for what their relative does with their life.
And thank you for the explanation. I know it is your right, but when a newspaper man who holds the first amendment on such a pedestal starts censoring things, it makes me wonder how bad it must have been. Maybe he said POO or something?! :)
Maybe if we get the "right" set of powerpeople in this next commission will bring in another big box store. Then there won't be any other stores left to sell anything. Won't matter who used to sell what to the city. City will have to shop in POnca.
Would it be okay to say Kuhn did not not get secret information from city staff so he could make his bids lower? Or would hat get pulled?
Ill leave it.
My bosses say i have to take down some stuff, and i dont disagree with them.
How would you like an anonymous person on here to say you - using your real name - are involved in illegal activity?
You probably wouldn't, but feel free to do it yourself and are afraid to use your real name.
Do you have any proof?
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