Just after 6 p.m., and no fallout from my article yet.
I have a column about local connections in Saturday's paper. Ill post it here tomorrow
Also, ill try that live blog thing again Saturday morning.
10 a.m. until 11 a.m.
We had a pretty good talk on various subjects last week.
See you there.
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79 comments:
"He said the "white elitists" and long-time power structure in the city are upset with him because he has upset the status quo."
The man dresses in black face once, and now he is able to play the race card? yeah....
Man o man he just doesn't "get it" does he? Maybe he was talking about the "money people" here in town.
i am white and i am quite offended by by somone useing obtruse discriptions involveing my race
I'm offended because I'm rich and work at one of the local banks and feel like he was probably talking about me.
I think I will call the NAACP for white people. Anyone have the number?
Look forward to a lively discussion about this in the AM. James good articles.
It took someone asking "Why" to bring the Berlin Wall down. When enough people asked and realized it no longer had a purpose it was done.
Apathy is our worst enenmy. It has many forms - such as we always did it that way - or it can't be done or why bother or let someone else worry about it or even mind your own business.
When people start asking "WHY" and looking for answers, solutions
and accountability then the
Who's no longer have control.
So:
Why is the water so high in AC?
Could it be the city only makes
money on water/sewer and trash
as well as fines etc. They
provide no other services or
utilities?
Why is Retail and Sales tax the
only answer to increase AC
revenue?
Is that their answer - to get
money from other cities in the
form of sales tax?
Why did they let them board up
the windows in Downtown?
Could it be that the properties
went from operator/owned to
rental properties?
Why did they need 9 people on
the Hospital Board and why not
reorganize it now?
Could it be a case of too much
input/interference/inefficient?
Why do some small businesses
choose to build or operate in the
county instead of the City?
Why has Goff Industrial Park
never fully developed?
You'll have to ask ACI? and the
three trubadors
or
will you continue to blame the
3 amigos?
Why does 20% of the income come
from State or Federal sources?
Could it be due to the aging of
the population as well as the
lower pay scale of local jobs
and the fact that there is no
growth in population or
industry?
Personally, I rather have Mel and Dotty asking why than a bunch of puppets following orders from the Who's that have their own agenda or the rest that don't really care!
(Content with the status quo)
When enough people have had
enough of the petty name
calling and choosing sides
there will be change.
Until then you deserve what you
get! (a Berlin wall).
You ask why and then rebuild your own wall with a political choice. They may have asked why but I don't think they or you have listened to the explanations. Perhaps, if they had we would not have had several ordinance made and then removed within weeks. People would also not be so angry about the refusal to listen to the Lowe's idea. If nothing else came out of the death of Lowe's then it proved to most of the people in this town that voting must be done carefully and we should always keep in sight that a few vocal people can control the future of an entire community...no matter which way you think.
It takes lots of foresight, consideration and listening to be a good commissioner. You also have to understand that you may have to go with what is good for the welfare of the entire community and not a few or not even yourself. I hope that the wall this commission has repeatedly put in place will be removed.
We have a future that needs to be addressed and right now we are stuck in controversy and "white elitist" accusations. The attitude of our mayor and what I saw on television from the commission says enough.
Why continue mired in this muck?move? Lets move into something positive. The commission needs a person that can unite this town and I am not sure that there is one but I am willing to vote for some change.
We have voted for change since I think 2003 we have not re-elected the same person. Either they are completely burned out at the end of term and don't run or they don't get voted back in.
Change is very good. But we are starting over every two years. Every two years a big whoop is made to oust the past. Those alwful people who tried and gave so much of their time and effort to make things better. I am not saying that I no one should ever be voted out, but are any of us willing to put our names on a ballot? I never have.
To be verbally bashed every two weeks, have every word uttered rehashed until the next meeting when new things will be said.
In most cases we are not voting in new we are compaigning on voting out.
Right now we have been challenged to watch the commission video, I have been told what to look for, I have been told what I would see. Well I looked at the video I didn't see it that way. I didn't see any attack, I didn't see any hatefulness, I didn't see a mockery.
What I saw was people that cared enough to ask a question. cared enough to make sure that all voices were heard.
As for changing the last couple of things. So what are you not proud that they can do that, that they would do that. That is the American Way I hope and pray we never lose that.
Edited & Reposted
Do you have to be Caucasian to be offended by the comments of the current mayor?
Was his comment racially offensive or was it economically offensive?
Did he even say anything wrong or are people just spoiling for another issue to fight about?
Does it matter so much after mid-April? (note the Traveler report stated his term as mayor ends in June)
March 7, 2009 9:12 AM
"Personally, I rather have Mel and Dotty asking why than a bunch of puppets following orders from the Who's that have their own agenda or the rest that don't really care!
(Content with the status quo)"
OH PUHLEEEZE. Talk about your puppets on a string. Mel and Dottie are the worst. The Lowe's deal clearly showed that they were only interested in the wants and needs or the few, and perfectly willing to ignore the many. You may want us to forget the Lowe's fiasco, but we won't. It showed their true colors. white elitist.
And Charles, how did you really feel about the white elitist remark? What if he'd said black elitist?
I am still surprised that the "white elitist" remark is what has gotten everyone's attention.
I thought at least two other remarks were more provocative. But then, thats just me.
Lots of good posts here.
We do need to ask questions, and we need to listen. I hear questions asked at times, and it is obvious what answer is wanted, and the asker doesnt listen to anything that is not the answer he or she wanted.
One poster asked about sales tax as to it being the way for the city to raise money.
Well, it is the fairest tax. Property tax is really unfair, but they could go that route and raise those taxes instead.
The amount of state and federal money shrinking is due to federal and state tax cuts. They pass the taxes down the line and its local governments that are at the end, and who get blamed.
For every state tax cut there is, that means your local government is getting less, so they have to make it up somewhere.
Its just a matter of who to pay.
James--- what two comments were thinking should have gotten more attention.
"Was his comment racially offensive or was it economically offensive?
Did he even say anything wrong or are people just spoiling for another issue to fight about?
Does it matter so much after mid-April?"
Was his performance in black face just for humor?
Was it taken out of the humorous context, just so people would have an issue to fight about?
It was just a one time performance, does it really matter?
Do the answers vary depending on the race of the person offended....YES
Hellooo?! I told you all about the class system last week. About how he wants to change the board since they turned down his secret texts??? He thought it would work, and it didn't. I told you this. So now he's calling THEM out?!? Just like a spoiled kid who didn't get his way. This is not news to me, and shouldn't be to anyone here. I'll say it again, but since he's on here, things may change...actually, I don't have time right now, go back and look through the posts. Mine usually are along the lines of "wait til you see what happens next." I'll start signing the name "W.M. Felt." Hopefully his own pride will be his downfall.
James--- what two comments were thinking should have gotten more attention.
>>
He took credit for the hospital.
He doesnt care what anyone thinks.
and the quote at the end, which basically says if the price is good and he delivers, why should anyone care?
We weren't shocked by those comments because he has said them before.
How nice it would have been and refreshing if Mr. Kuhn had been a gentleman about the whole thing. Since he has nothing to hide and all was legal and ethical why did he not just say "I understand your concerns and hope when you see the facts that no wrong doing has taken place you will have those concerns put aside." It was all he needed to say and it would have been kind and not arrogant or so defensive.
Instead, he wants to pick a fight by calling people who questioned him "white elitists". I guess anyone that questions the commission now fall into that category even thought I am not sure how race and his business practices can be compared.
Mr. Kuhn may have saved the city lots of money but isn't that what he is supposed to do as commissioner? He carries that flag as if he should be given a medal for it.
His attitude "if you don't like it...shove it" just reflects poorly on the city and the people that support him are the same people that probably have the same attitude.
The city is a business and would you hire someone that calls his boss "white elitists" because they questioned him? Would you hire someone that insulted a race with an "innocent" skit? If he has the best interests of the city at heart then I hope he never gets mad at us.
I understand the pressures of keeping the everyone happy. I know he can not do it but please Mr. Kuhn quit being such a bully.
People would also not be so angry about the refusal to listen to the Lowe's idea. If nothing else came out of the death of Lowe's then it proved to most of the people in this town that voting must be done carefully and we should always keep in sight that a few vocal people can control the future of an entire community...no matter which way you think.
.....................
Ok, you just can't let it go -
So, why was the Lowes proposal done in that fashion?
It was an either/or already decided deal - accept it or reject it! Wasn't it?
If I recall after (wasn't it)
phase 3 there was no truning back
- were there any options for
modification?
Just give me your checkbook and I'll take care of your money!
I could have supported a Lowes -
take it or leave it - but I certainly would have proposed it at the retail acreage at Strother Field.
Don't get me started on Strother Field!
BTW: Mcgrew when are you going to fix the pot hole in front of the terminal building? I know when it gets so bad you can justify hiring a subcontractor.
When enough people .........
Lowe's wasn't going in at Strother Field but in Ark City. Perhaps, you need to check facts before being so upset. In return for the TIF funding we would have benefited in ways far greater than several of our commissioners could grasp.
It is not the Lowe's thing that I am hanging on to but what it represented to the future and where we might have been in a few years. It was really the way the town was ignored for three businesses.
Is it true that Woods does a huge business in Ponca which also has a Lowe's. Business with vision and planning can thrive and I still contend that Bryants and Midwest Electric could have done the same considering that they are managed by enthusiastic people.
I don't care who gets elected if they can guarantee they will listen to everyone. They don't have to agree with me but for goodness sakes LISTEN before making snide remarks and please treat us lowly "white elitists" with the same respect the commission thinks they deserve. We aren't little kids and the "gotcha" politics is really tearing this town up.
Sorry, But I didn't miss a thing!
I WOULD HAVE PROPOSED THE LOWES AT STROTHER FIELD!
The fact is that the plan was to
get "steal" whatever you want to call it - money from other towns in the form of sales tax to help Ark City.
Now I am not saying that plan didn't have some merit!
But the same "Wall" exist at Strother as in Ark City.
They have to post a Sheriff at the theater to keep the kids from figthing. They surely didn't learn that from their parents! Did they?
Now its time to insert the generic answer - If you don't like it leave - I probably have been here longer than most of you!
THERE IS NO REASON THAT THIS AREA CAN'T BE DEVELOPED FURTHER TO THE BENEFIT OF ITS RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES!
What I can't believe is that all the efforts of those previous hard working generations have been negelcted by the following generations. Many of who were content to let it happen. Many who helped speed along the process.
When enough people realize that they don't have to be held hostage by the things and people that prevent moving forward. Things will change!
Oh, one other thing - that part about leaving only works once you make your money or sell your business or real estate or if you can get a better job!
You/We need to work to reverse that trend!
Can't we all just get along??
The Lowe's deal still sticks in our craw, it's true.
The commision put the wants of three business owners ahead of the majority. That was wrong.
Kuhn treated the representative from Lowe's like a dog, and made us all look like a bunch of backward hillbillies in the process. That too was wrong.
And believe me, the people have not forgotten, and they will still not have forgotten in two more years when Kuhn and Smith are up for re-election. You'll notice I left Margolis out because I believe he will not be there after this election.
WHITE ELITIST POWER!
Dude(ette?),
I don't care if Kuhn says the Aliens made him do it!
You have just as much blame and responsibility if you don't force the issues that are important to you!
I explained why I didn't like the Lowes proposal. It didn't address the real problems - quite possibly could have made things worse - it would have affected the businesses in other towns. Finally, do you know what a roller coaster retail can be? I wonder if when things got tight in small towns - if an Appleby's would survive?
If it had gone on Goff Ind. park so be it - but there is no doubt in my mind that the "bucket run-ith over brigade" would have been sitting there counting alot of coin.
I don't know what its going to take to get you to see that there is'nt the next generations or jobs necessary to stop the backward slide/trend! (Aircraft is either the #1 or #2 employer for the County).
Also, I don't see the leadership that is addressing that problem!
I might be wrong - but you welcome to convince me otherwise!
How about looking at the sales tax that would be brought in by having a Lowe's here in Ark City? We voted (before many of us lost jobs and the recession was at hand mindyou) to raise the sales tax 1c for roads and the hospital. That tax burden would have been paid off so much faster if we had people coming from out of town to help with it.
A Lowe's, especially with the economy the way it is, and people needing to do it themselves, would have helped emmensly with that.
But the three amigos only looked at what their buddies wanted, instead of having some foresight into what would be best for the town.
This is just wrong! First of all there was no Lowe's it was a builder guy he never once not once ever said Lowe's he sid 'the coner stone of the porperty would be a big box store is what we are looking at'. Retail, is that what you think we need more retail. I am not a fan of the hardware store or the electric fixture store or the lumber yard. I am just smart enough to know that we can not support a home improvement store here. Didn't they have one in Winfield.
The lastest survey taken in Ponca by out of state shoppers that Ponca has shown no drop off at their super walmart because Ark city built a super walmart. People still go to Ponca to shop you can't duplicate the whole town. You been driving up and down Summit lately? Looked at the vacancies that are in the strip malls. When they were being 'developed' and presented to the city commissioner they had 5 count em' 5 national chain stores ready to come in..... but they couldn't tell us which ones. Turned out they didn't have any but you can't get a tax break when you tell the truth.
"The lastest survey taken in Ponca by out of state shoppers that Ponca has shown no drop off at their super walmart because Ark city built a super walmart."
Well, I for one have not been to Wal Mart in Ponca since ours was built. But even if that were the case, don't you think people here in AC would stop driving to Lowe's in Ponca if we had one here? And don't you think that surrounding towns would drive here to shop at Lowe's rather than go to Ponca or Wichita? I can see people coming from Winfield, Cedar Vale, Sedan, Caldwell, South Haven, Udall, Rock, etc etc. Don't you think that would help us pay off our sales tax faster?
If it wasn't Lowe's then why was Bryant's and Midwest Electric so upset. Midwest Electric even had a lawyer hired from KC to fight it. If it wasn't Lowe's then why didn't we even have a chance to find out what it was? Oh wait...only three of our commissioners know that answer.
Are you willing to let those three commissioners continue to decide for us what is in our best interest? Let's see water bills, crash recovery fee and now they are messing with the hospital. They may deserve my trust but they have to earn it first.
I want them to quit being so narrow minded and so quick to cut things not because they are bad ideas but because they don't like the people involved. I want them to look at the entire picture before they make decisions...that hasn't happened yet.
I never was upset. I said then, but most seemed to ignore it, that I was for new businesses coming to town. I just felt they should have to pay their own way. I had no lawyer, I just went to the meetings and spoke on how I felt. Honestly do people feel that I have so much power in this town that I could stop Lowes? I think the big part to look at is if Lowes backed out or decided not to come here then the land the city would have ran services too would by able to be deannexed. Now looking at articles saying Lowes has stopped all expansion projects I wonder was our commission closed minded or did they look at the big picture saving us all a lot of money?
Greetings I am reading and reading and thinking that there are only problems here. There are no solutions. Evenything is about what's wrong and who's to blame. There is nothing positive that I can see in this whole blog.
We don't have a lowe's we don't have a big box store, so let's move past that and find something else to set our sight's on.
It is easy to pass judgement on elected officials on TV but these are our neighbors, and people we see in the grocery store. I just have to say that not one of the people elected to serve get's up in the morning and says i want to destroy this town. I thin they getup in the morning and say I hope that what I am taking away from my family in time and energy to serve on this commission will make Arkansas City better and stronger for the next generation.
Greetings I am reading and reading and thinking that there are only problems here. There are no solutions. Evenything is about what's wrong and who's to blame. There is nothing positive that I can see in this whole blog.
We don't have a lowe's we don't have a big box store, so let's move past that and find something else to set our sight's on.
It is easy to pass judgement on elected officials on TV but these are our neighbors, and people we see in the grocery store. I just have to say that not one of the people elected to serve get's up in the morning and says i want to destroy this town. I thin they getup in the morning and say I hope that what I am taking away from my family in time and energy to serve on this commission will make Arkansas City better and stronger for the next generation.
Kanyon, I don't know how long you have been reading these blogs, but there is some that will never give it up. It's a topic that will never seem to die.
"Now looking at articles saying Lowes has stopped all expansion projects I wonder was our commission closed minded or did they look at the big picture saving us all a lot of money?"
Lowe's, along with almost every business in the country right now except government, is stopping expansion because of the economy. If the Lowe's had gone through, the store would probably already be here, and would help with the economy of our little town by giving laid off people another place to get some hours, and by letting do it yourselfers like me save money on supplies for home repairs and projects.
"Are you willing to let those three commissioners continue to decide for us what is in our best interest?"
YES!
They are actually listening to US and taking their direction from US instead of the WHITE ELITISTS!!!
@ Average Joe,
ROFLMAO
Good one Joe.
Kanyon is right.
Part of that is because people are anonymous and that emboldens people to be nasty, or at least negative.
There is a place for negativity, but it does seem that sometimes the blogs get more than their share.
I keep saying, its fine to criticize, but ... you need to also offer an alternative.
I think the Lowe's issue is symbolic for the anger that people still feel over being denied the right to hear more about a proposal.
It was exciting to think that a big company had chosen our community for expansion. I think most of us saw it for the good it would bring and were quite confident that Zach and Curtis could and would be smart enough to know how to compete and continue with their success. I saw the response and the attitude of the commission and considered it a slam to the community and the businesses in downtown.
It sent a clear message that we as commissioners don't think you could survive competition. We are going to save you by shutting down any discussions on any and all future growth which is exactly what it did.
I don't understand how race and white elitists can be used in the discussion of job growth and community vision. Those are not bad things and not tied to race.
March 10, 2009 10:01 AM
It was exciting to think that a big company had chosen our community for expansion.
Lowe's didn't pick our community. A guy who buys and gets tax credits and stuff he was invited to this property in this community. And if all the i's had been dotte and t's crossed and if he had been given everything he wanted then he would have reaped the benefits.
then he would have owned a piece of propety and then he would have said to Lowe's hey look what I found. There was no representative from Lowe's.
A Lowe's, especially with the economy the way it is, and people needing to do it themselves, would have helped emmensly with that.
...................
Well it could have enticed people to buy stuff on credit that they didn't need or couldn't afford!
That might be kind of like having
a Casino at both ends of town! Wouldn't it?
That might be kind of like having
a Casino at both ends of town! Wouldn't it?
Well at least with a Lowe's, you could have brought something home.
I may have missed something but I thought we heard the whole proposal. What part were you left in the dark on?
I could of bought a hot water tank and washer there. Drove to Ponca instead. Seems like we're a little jinxed with everything totally messing up in close amount of time. Not everyone goes to lowes with a credit card in there hand for the good stuff we would like to have.
Well I'll bet you didn't get that hot water tank much cheaper than you could have bought one at Orschelns and a Washer at Sears.
But I don't fault you for where you make your purchases there are things they can get in Ponca and they drive somwwhere else to buy it.
Zach, you know darn well that the three amigos killed the deal before we even had the proposal on the table. A yes vote would have ONLY taken us to the next step and let us find out the details of the proposal and how it would work. There was ZERO commitment. It was still in the fact finding stage. But, it was killed for the few of you who cried the loudest. The rest of us were ignored.
That is what angered us so much.
That is also the reason that Kuhn, Smith and Margolis will not get a second term.
I don't remember the details of the whole thing seeing as how I quit "crying" about this a year ago but I recall it needed a tiff, tax breaks, construction, city services, and the developer had the right to back out at any time during the project. Heck they even said it was a Lowes they were looking to put there. I guess what I'm asking is what more information did you want? Seems to me that all the cards were on the table. Once again I never spoke out against getting a Lowes. This is people putting words in my mouth. I did however say the playing field should be even meaning Lowes should have to pay their own way to get here rather then do it on the citizens of Ark Citys backs. So honestly lets hear it. What question about the Lowes proposal did you want to ask that never got answered? I challenge anyone to ask one. And I remind you that sometimes to get the answers you do have to attend the meetings.
I did however say the playing field should be even meaning Lowes should have to pay their own way to get here rather then do it on the citizens of Ark Citys backs.
>>>>
Just to be the devils advocate.
What about free services downtown merchants get. Free mainstreet frontage.
Parking lots provided at no cost. Water, sewer and electric services available "at the door."
Police protection.
Is it a level playing field to ask companies to come in and build on the edge of town and have to pay for all these things?
:)
Amen jj.
Ok JJ I'll debate it.
Free frontage my butt, do you have any idea what it is costing me to be here?
Free parking lots that can be filled with employee vehicles that don't belong to your business or used by the city for other events, such as Arkalalah.
Utilities to the door if once again you pay for them.
Isn't everyone given police protection?
Here is my question though is who said Lowes had to build on the edge of town or better yet had to build at all? Wasn't there a empty Wal-Mart building at the time of this that had the parking, utilities and was on the main street? Isn't there empty buildings in the downtown?
Once again I am sorry Lowes didn't come here. I am sorry I haven't been the store that Lowes is. Truth be told my store is closing. I no longer have the funds to keep my doors open so I have been looking for a buyer but my time is running out. I don't blame anyone for this nor am I bitter towards Ark City. I gave it a shot, my father told me not to, I thought I could make it work, and it didn't. Thank you to the people of Ark City for supporting Bryant Hardware for 87 years. I appologize to all of you that we won't be here for much longer. Lowes is more than welcome to buy my building, it has all the "free" things JJ spoke about.
Hey Zach
i hope you find a way to stay open.
maybe you could shift into other things to sell ?
my only point is that i dont think the argument of coming in on their own dime is a fair one.
downtown merchants do receive benefits that they do not pay for directly..
as taxpayers we all pay for those things such as streets and parking lots.
or even access to water and sewer.
to get any industry, or just about any large business to move to town, you will have to give them enticements..
theres no reason for them to come here when they can go anywhere else and get them.
JJ you are so right, if a city now days doesn't offer TIFS you will not see much growth
Funny that Winfield didn't give it either. Guess they can't go anywhere. And what of the old Wal-Mart building? Why did they have to build? Oh that's right because the developer wouldn't make anything that way. If Lowes wanted to come to town then they would have but during the debate they would have found that the developers supporters did the best thing to keep it from happening. They showed that Lowes was already getting all the money so why build if you are already getting it all? A good question I guess would be does a big retail business actually help a city evolve? How many small towns have dried up after Wal-Mart has expanded there?
And once again what did we give Walgreens or are they not a big business?
s a big retail business actually help a city evolve? How many small towns have dried up after Wal-Mart has expanded there?
>>
That would be a good study.
the thing with the one here would have been the development it would have brought.
we would not have been "giving" them anything really.
all the money the developer would have gotten, would have come from taxes on the new businesses.
if it never developed, the city would not have been out any money.
how did the meeting go last night.?
"That would be a good study."
There was a study -20/20 visions- and it said that the area could support a Home Improvement Store equivalent to a "Sutherlands"(?) not a Lowes.
When you choose to do the things to increase the population base and income levels the rest will take care of itself.
You don't have to look any further than to the North to see that happening.
The strength of this area was always farming and industry. You can't compete with the retail options of bigger cities or by building on retail alone!
JJ,
Meeting went good. Officers were elected, more fund raiser ideas were tossed around and we passed on the message to the kids about the ordinance that even if they feel a police officer is in the wrong just do as you are told and get an adult. This will save the kids a lot of headache in the long run I do believe. There were both current commissioners there (McDonald and Margoleus (sorry if I misspelled that)) and a commission hopeful (Mathews). We were able to show them where children had in fact been charged with trespassing for skating on the sidewalks which to this point both the commission and police department had denied happening. I'm excited for the garage sale coming up on the 21st. We have been getting lots of donations at Bryant's for the sale and calls are still coming in. The group has a lot of energy right now and we need to use it to further the project along.
BTW, If your advisors are from Phoenix - it is a true consumer area. With a substantial increase in population due to the seasons.
Things that work in Arizona might not be a good example to be used in this area.
But they are welcome to keep investing there instead of in this area!
Albeit, it might take a while for the real estate in that area (Arizona) to recover.
@ anonymous March 10, 2009 3:36 PM
Not trying to aurgue with you about prices but, I looked up sears price and compared it to the price I paid at lowes on my ge washer(exact same model). According to sears website, the washer is on sale now and I would have paid an extra $80. Figure about $8-10 on gas to drive to Ponca. Non sale price and I would have paid an extra $161. I take that back on the hot water tank. We bought it at Ace.
Sorry your business is not doing well Zach. It'll be sad to see a piece of AC history closing down.
Thanks Jamie
"Lowes should have to pay their own way to get here rather then do it on the citizens of Ark Citys"
Zach, Here is the problem with spreading information that is not true! Let me repeat this again. LOWES was NOT getting any tax breaks! Lowes would have had to pay taxes just like anybody else! The taxes that the big box store or Lowes would have paid would have been put back into the development of the infrastructure to bring more bussiness into the area. The three amigos and their buddies did not give the info correctly they tilted it for their own agenda. Amigo #1 Scott is up trying to be elected again. He cheated our community!
Can we quit crying about Lowes yet or is it really this hot a topic a year later? Again I guess I ask what questions weren't answered at the meetings? How did Walgreens come if big business has to be done this way? And finally Lowes couldn't have used the old Wal-Mart money cutting out the developer and saving money why? Until these questions are answered I just see a bunch of misinformed people yelling the same old things. Oh and two more questions, wasn't the manager of Ace at these meetings too? Why is it Kurtic and myself that take all the blame with the commission?
Zach,
Hang in there you stood your ground!
I think in retrospect one of the things at the end of the Lowe's proposed project and denial was the Three Trubadors.
One of which was a previous Mayor of the city.
I sat there wondering how many of his vending machines would have been set out on the sidewalks. If he had been one of the Amigos?
There is a way to do business and play by the rules. A way to treat others - the way you want to be treated.
I hope your business has not been targeted because of your standing up - but I respect you more than some of the others who are older and wiser but lesser for there actions.
No, we will hear about Lowes over and over as long as we live. It'll never die, just like rock n roll. It will haunt us the rest of our days! :)
Some of us have moved on, others haven't. I suspect that it is because of election time.
I think your right! There could be other options just around the corner. But, until then its probably easier to re-live the past. Even vote based on the past!
The past usually predicts the future. Are any of you suprized when the mayor does something stupid? Not anymore because we have grown to expect it. Should we expect Scot or the three amigos to act any less disfunctional? Nope we have grown to expect it. Like I said the past predicts the future!
Like I said the past predicts the future!
Ok.
Lost John Morell
Lost Viola Elevator
Lost Total Refinery
Lost Gilliland Printing
Lost Gordon and Piatt
Need I keep going .....
But you'll still have a Lowe's.
"But you'll still have a Lowe's."
Thank you for making my point! I wonder what our community would be like if we had a retail development. Go ahead with your predictions of doom and gloom. Becase you have preached in in the past I can expect the response to be the same. Plenty of examples for us to look at and see it has worked in other communities. We are just to busy building a fence around us.
Heck i don't want to stop -
Lost Cessena - and a chance to
get it back
Lost Binney and Smith
Lost Stuthers Thermoflood
Lost Haliburton
Lost Central Plains Booksellers
Lost WSH&TC
Lost the Soap Factory
Lost the Meter Factory
Lost the toy factory
Lost a division of Mongomery
Elevator in the Goff Ind.
Whse.
Lost Future Beef Warehouse
Creekstone didn't use it.
Lost The Chevrolet Dealership in
AC
Iknow I left out some ...
Now I relaiize that has been over several years and some companies have filled the gap and some of the buildings.
Someday if I could I'd do a comparison of the jobs gained and lost and comparative income base to inflation over the last 20 yrs.
I understand it would be distorted by the number of people who commute and the number of retired. But I think I see a pretty good description of the
present condition of the area.
JJ
This is not meant to spread a rumor anymore than it already has
- I heard the County is at an all
time high for unemployment. Is that true?
BTW; I am not blaming anyone just asking WHY? I know you can't make people or businesses/industry stay! But why is there little or no interest to get them to come!
Thank you for making my point! I wonder what our community would be like if we had a retail development. Go ahead with your predictions of doom and gloom.
.................
You see them as predicitions of gloom and doom. I see it as need to take action and a need to move in a different direction!
But, tell me again how you plan to spark a retail boom without a good job base - I know take it from other cities. What if they can't or don't play your Game?
- I heard the County is at an all
time high for unemployment. Is that true?
>>
Actually no.
I have those figures, Ill post them soon as i can.
We are at about 6 percent , which is below the state average, and below the national average.
I was shocked to see the national average at around 10 percent.
Unemployment has been higher just in recent times, in 06, and for a long time in 2002-2003.
and in the late 90s
We are nowhere near great depression numbers.
ill post the numbers tonight or tomorrow, and you can see it.
If you want to go hunting, go to www.kansas.gov.
they're on there someplace.
But, tell me again how you plan to spark a retail boom without a good job base - I
>>
We still have more jobs than people here.
i dont think we should focus on either the job base or the retail base.
you cant have one without the other.
we should work on both at the same time.
I know I'm wearing out my welcome and I'll back off:
But before I do - someone want try to list all the retail stores that have come and gone over the last 20yrs?
Anonymous, can you spell taxes, that is why the majority of the industries left cowley county and Ark City.
They got a better deal else where, say Independence. Need I say more.
JJ,
Can you explain the political cartoon in tonights paper to me please. I figure it had to be done by someone local but I have heard quite an uproar from parents involved in the skate club thinking it is very skater negative and gives the kids a negative steroetype. I realize political cartoons can be taken a number of ways but this one is over my head I guess. I'm hoping the negativity isn't truelly implied after all the hard work we have done trying to get these kids a possitive image. Mind giving me your take on it please?
Hi Zach
the cartoon really takes a poke at both sides on the skateboarder issue.
on one hand it is silly that the cops are charging kids with criminal trespassing
on the other hand, it is unsafe for kids to be skating in the street.
i dont see it as "very negative"
did the parents notice they got a front page story that put them in a good light ? :)
anyway, that was the point .. cops are over reacting, but the kids need to take some responsibility too.
Yes they did notice the front page article and that is what I heard the most anger from. They thought it was a bit two faced to have an article saying the possitive these kids were doing on the cover while putting a cartoon that gives them a negative look on the inside. Like I said I didn't get the joke but I would like a few things remembered:
1) Not all the kids are skating where they aren't supposed to be. In fact if you talk with uptown merchants you will find the numbers decreasing drastically.
2) Some of the police have told the kids to skate in the street (which we have asked them not to due to safety issues).
3) No one enjoys a joke that shows their child hurt. The drawing hit a little close to home for some.
4) By having the kid talk trash on "the man" you do give the children a negative perspective.
Like I said just my opinion.
Its cool Zach.
We were just trying to show both sides.
Funny I was asked recently who the other side is and all I could answer was a few anonymous people. Maybe you are misinformed thinking there is two sides to this debate. It seems to me that for the most part Ark City is for this. Esentially by doing things like that you make yourself the opposing side. A better political cartoon may be a picture of an editor at his desk talking on the phone saying "Oh yes, you and the children have our complete support," all the while writing "Children will be the death of us all, they are evil and should be jailed" on a newspaper.
Interesting, more and more I'm hearing from the "older generation" that the local walking trails are "unsafe" because kids on bikes ride them and will "run over you if you don't move out of their way". AND...that walkers bring their big dogs to the trails and don't clean up after them when they "relieve" themselves...how come everyone complains about the skateboarders but no one seems too worried about the idea that the skater kids aren't the only "nuisance" in town causing a disturbace in the force! All I hear is how if the City provides a skatepark, the kids will vandalize it and tear it up. Hmm...should the City maybe hire some walking trail cops to run poop patrol and write citations for wreckless endangerment for the ones who won't move out of the way for the people that the "walking" trails were intended for? Just an observation.
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